PATA'S SAID TO BE CUT DOWN TO MAKE KATAR's

katana · 9th March 2009, 05:46 PM

Hi,
these just finished on eBay
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...MEWA:IT&ih=012

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...MEWA:IT&ih=012

Both Pata's have obviously been cut down due to breakage of the blade. I cannot see these functioning well as Katar's (as suggested by the seller) The blade mount where it is fixed to the 'gauntlet' would seem a little weak for straight thrusts (as these, I thought, were used to slash) and because the tips are not re-inforced would do little against armour.
I wondered whether this was a common useage of damaged Pata.....I would have thought it would be reasonably easy for an armourer to replace the blade. I certainly would not want to be wielding one of these shortened versions in battle

Any input gratefully recieved

Regards David

Norman McCormick · 9th March 2009, 08:33 PM

Hi David,
This seller does seem to have had an extraordinary quantity of 'unusual' items for sale.
My Regards,
Norman.

katana · 9th March 2009, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norman McCormick

Hi David,
This seller does seem to have had an extraordinary quantity of 'unusual' items for sale.
My Regards,
Norman.

Hi Norman,
......yes and it has not gone un-noticed.......'sleepy' must be his catch phrase. He has had a lot of Zulu spears and a great number of Khyber knives all "genuine". These Pata, to me, look like they have been 'worked on' ...I cant put my finger on it...but alarm bells are ringing....still what do I know

Regards David

Atlantia · 9th March 2009, 10:57 PM

If he told me the sky was blue.........
I'd still look up to check!

sabertasche · 11th March 2009, 05:06 AM

Guys, I would have to agree with you on this one. I've learned my lesson re "Mr.Ground Control to __________" I would avoid this seller unless you can personally examine the item and back up your decision with research and common sense.

Greg

Royston · 11th March 2009, 11:39 AM

Just in case anyone is jumping to conclusions by looking at locations, I would like to state that this is NOT me.

Regards
Royston

katana · 11th March 2009, 04:50 PM

Hi,
my intention for starting the thread was to find out whether a Pata with a broken blade would have found itself 'pressed into service' as a Katar. To me it seemed unlikely....because the fitment of the blade is similar to a Khanda, I wondered if it was relatively easier to 'de-rivet' and replace the whole blade. If it was indeed, common for a pata (with a shortened blade) to be used as a Katar. My assumption that it was easier to replace the blade would be flawed.

I think a number of formites have their opinions about this seller ...but this was not the reason for the thread...I apologise, that I did not make that clear.

Best Regards David

Norman McCormick · 19th March 2009, 07:58 PM

Hi David,
I think the description is the product of a somewhat fertile imagination. I'm not sure whether you could fight your way out of a wet paper bag with these 'katars', a few layers of decent cloth would be enough to prevent any penetration never mind maille etc. I'm sure you're correct in your assumption that these are broken blades reground. If they were converted to a Katar type weapon why wouldn't you put a decent point on the thing? To attract sales is the only reason I can think of to assign a spurious use to otherwise broken equipment.
My Regards,
Norman.

trajan · 20th March 2009, 12:01 AM

Hello,

Both of these look like broken "dance" blades to me. I've handled several pata with intact broadsword like blades but most I've seen have the ceremonial or dance blade.
Both of these no longer have the functional stiff broadsword blade attached . These look like they have the very flexible dance or ceremonial blade. The great majority of old pata gauntlets seem to have this type of blade--it seems that it is rather rare to come across an unaltered one. My theory is that when they were no longer used for battle many were converted to purely ceremonial use.

I have 2 with dance blades right now and one has a broken blade still attached to the replacement blade. I imagine these were broken and then reshaped as the dance blades are rather flimsy .

Thanks
Matt

9th March 2009, 05:46 PM	#1
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	PATA'S SAID TO BE CUT DOWN TO MAKE KATAR's Hi, these just finished on eBay http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...MEWA:IT&ih=012 http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...MEWA:IT&ih=012 Both Pata's have obviously been cut down due to breakage of the blade. I cannot see these functioning well as Katar's (as suggested by the seller) The blade mount where it is fixed to the 'gauntlet' would seem a little weak for straight thrusts (as these, I thought, were used to slash) and because the tips are not re-inforced would do little against armour. I wondered whether this was a common useage of damaged Pata.....I would have thought it would be reasonably easy for an armourer to replace the blade. I certainly would not want to be wielding one of these shortened versions in battle Any input gratefully recieved Regards David

19th March 2009, 07:58 PM	#8
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,597	Hi David, I think the description is the product of a somewhat fertile imagination. I'm not sure whether you could fight your way out of a wet paper bag with these 'katars', a few layers of decent cloth would be enough to prevent any penetration never mind maille etc. I'm sure you're correct in your assumption that these are broken blades reground. If they were converted to a Katar type weapon why wouldn't you put a decent point on the thing? To attract sales is the only reason I can think of to assign a spurious use to otherwise broken equipment. My Regards, Norman. Last edited by Norman McCormick; 19th March 2009 at 09:14 PM.

20th March 2009, 12:01 AM	#9
trajan Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 68	pata Hello, Both of these look like broken "dance" blades to me. I've handled several pata with intact broadsword like blades but most I've seen have the ceremonial or dance blade. Both of these no longer have the functional stiff broadsword blade attached . These look like they have the very flexible dance or ceremonial blade. The great majority of old pata gauntlets seem to have this type of blade--it seems that it is rather rare to come across an unaltered one. My theory is that when they were no longer used for battle many were converted to purely ceremonial use. I have 2 with dance blades right now and one has a broken blade still attached to the replacement blade. I imagine these were broken and then reshaped as the dance blades are rather flimsy . Thanks Matt

9th March 2009, 08:33 PM	#2
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,597	Hi David, This seller does seem to have had an extraordinary quantity of 'unusual' items for sale. My Regards, Norman.

9th March 2009, 10:57 PM	#4
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	If he told me the sky was blue......... I'd still look up to check!

11th March 2009, 05:06 AM	#5
sabertasche Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 149	Guys, I would have to agree with you on this one. I've learned my lesson re "Mr.Ground Control to __________" I would avoid this seller unless you can personally examine the item and back up your decision with research and common sense. Greg

11th March 2009, 11:39 AM	#6
Royston Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Poole England Posts: 443	Just in case anyone is jumping to conclusions by looking at locations, I would like to state that this is NOT me. Regards Royston

11th March 2009, 04:50 PM	#7
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Hi, my intention for starting the thread was to find out whether a Pata with a broken blade would have found itself 'pressed into service' as a Katar. To me it seemed unlikely....because the fitment of the blade is similar to a Khanda, I wondered if it was relatively easier to 'de-rivet' and replace the whole blade. If it was indeed, common for a pata (with a shortened blade) to be used as a Katar. My assumption that it was easier to replace the blade would be flawed. I think a number of formites have their opinions about this seller ...but this was not the reason for the thread...I apologise, that I did not make that clear. Best Regards David