Moro Kris: what did I buy?

ariel · 24th October 2008, 01:31 AM

Never been into Moro weapons, but this one caught my eye for some reasons: looked old to me.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...#ht_2912wt_909
Can you look at it and either pat me on the back or recommend a suitable place for it on my Wall of Shame?
After all, in this day and age of trillion dollar rescue plans , $86 doesn't look very painful....

Bill · 24th October 2008, 01:48 AM

Doubt it's Moro, looks like a Malay Sundang.
Try removing the hilt & let's look at the tang. It's on backwards, anyway.
Well worth the money, for the chance it's a oldie.

kai · 24th October 2008, 01:57 AM

Hello Ariel,

That's an interesting piece - good grab!

Of course, the hilt is upside down and I guess this is a later replacement which doesn't seem to be from the southern Philippines. I'm not sure that the blade is Moro either - the base features would be exceptionally simple for a Moro kris. If I had to guess, I'd be tempted to consider a Lumad origin.

Please polish and etch the blade when you receive it and posts pics - that may help to get a better perspective on this piece!

Regards,
Kai

Battara · 24th October 2008, 02:54 AM

Lumad, maybe. I'm more in the Indonesian camp at present. Not really Moro for sure.

CharlesS · 24th October 2008, 03:06 AM

Agreed with Battara...nothing about this says Moro. Looks like a reworked Indonesian blade to me, but I do think it's interesting that the hilt seems to show a nice patina, meaning somebody must have used it for something.

Bill · 24th October 2008, 04:13 AM

Be interesting to see if any of the Borneo people may want to comment.
Small village work or from a group that normally didn't do detailed file work on their blades.

Maurice · 24th October 2008, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill

Be interesting to see if any of the Borneo people may want to comment.
Small village work or from a group that normally didn't do detailed file work on their blades.

The kerisses that were found in Borneo were essentially Malay weapons. They were no Borneo natives weapons, although met with in Borneo because of the Malay people brought it there. You found them most were the malay were settled at that time in Borneo (coastal ereas or a little upstream the rivers, such as Banjarmassin).
They were in general not to be found in the deep forests at the dajaks.

Krisses in ,Moro, style were found most of all in North Borneo (Sabah). Because philippines travellers (and, or pirates) settled overthere or traded there with the dajaks.

I read about some dajaks in the hart of Borneo wearing a keris. But they were in contact with malays and obtained it by trade or by gift, or as payment for some decent or less decent work

they did for a malay person.

That is what I know about kerisses, krisses in Borneo. However I can,t tell anything about the kris in this thread. I think there will be others who will.

Maurice

ariel · 10th November 2008, 02:26 PM

OK, guys, I need to be enlightened: why is it Lumad and not old Moro or a transitional stage between the Indonesian and Philippine styles? I got it but had to go to a resort in the Dominican Republic for a week ( feel sorry for me, please: sun, sea, grilled fish, mangoes, sangria galore, gorgeous blondes getting even tan all over their flawless torsos....), so I did not have time to polish it.
However: the blade is heavier and more massive than Indonesian krisses, the gangya is separate, the dividing line is straight with just a hint of a "knee", the fretwork is rudimentary. To me it looks just like the Fig 161 in the " History of steel" ( written by some of our esteemed colleagues). The handle is mounted in a wrong fashion, but I could not take it of: rock solid connection. It is old, the bone is heavily and deeply patinated.
Please educate me.

David · 10th November 2008, 05:19 PM

Well Ariel, i can't tell you why it might be Lumad, or even that it is, but i will go out on a short limb here and say that it ain't Moro. The features just aren't right, even for early Moro. And if that hilt is original the motifs are all wrong for Moro. As for a missing link piece, i doubt this kris is old enough for that and given the form of what we know as "archaic" early form kris you would think that a transition piece would carry more of the Indo features that the early kris had such as a well defined sogokan.

24th October 2008, 01:31 AM	#1
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Moro Kris: what did I buy? Never been into Moro weapons, but this one caught my eye for some reasons: looked old to me. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...#ht_2912wt_909 Can you look at it and either pat me on the back or recommend a suitable place for it on my Wall of Shame? After all, in this day and age of trillion dollar rescue plans , $86 doesn't look very painful....

24th October 2008, 01:48 AM	#2
Bill Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Chicago area Posts: 327	Doubt it's Moro, looks like a Malay Sundang. Try removing the hilt & let's look at the tang. It's on backwards, anyway. Well worth the money, for the chance it's a oldie.

24th October 2008, 01:57 AM	#3
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,255	Hello Ariel, That's an interesting piece - good grab! Of course, the hilt is upside down and I guess this is a later replacement which doesn't seem to be from the southern Philippines. I'm not sure that the blade is Moro either - the base features would be exceptionally simple for a Moro kris. If I had to guess, I'd be tempted to consider a Lumad origin. Please polish and etch the blade when you receive it and posts pics - that may help to get a better perspective on this piece! Regards, Kai

24th October 2008, 02:54 AM	#4
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,266	Lumad, maybe. I'm more in the Indonesian camp at present. Not really Moro for sure.

24th October 2008, 03:06 AM	#5
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,854	Agreed with Battara...nothing about this says Moro. Looks like a reworked Indonesian blade to me, but I do think it's interesting that the hilt seems to show a nice patina, meaning somebody must have used it for something.

24th October 2008, 04:13 AM	#6
Bill Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Chicago area Posts: 327	Be interesting to see if any of the Borneo people may want to comment. Small village work or from a group that normally didn't do detailed file work on their blades.

10th November 2008, 02:26 PM	#8
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	OK, guys, I need to be enlightened: why is it Lumad and not old Moro or a transitional stage between the Indonesian and Philippine styles? I got it but had to go to a resort in the Dominican Republic for a week ( feel sorry for me, please: sun, sea, grilled fish, mangoes, sangria galore, gorgeous blondes getting even tan all over their flawless torsos....), so I did not have time to polish it. However: the blade is heavier and more massive than Indonesian krisses, the gangya is separate, the dividing line is straight with just a hint of a "knee", the fretwork is rudimentary. To me it looks just like the Fig 161 in the " History of steel" ( written by some of our esteemed colleagues). The handle is mounted in a wrong fashion, but I could not take it of: rock solid connection. It is old, the bone is heavily and deeply patinated. Please educate me.

10th November 2008, 05:19 PM	#9
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,204	Well Ariel, i can't tell you why it might be Lumad, or even that it is, but i will go out on a short limb here and say that it ain't Moro. The features just aren't right, even for early Moro. And if that hilt is original the motifs are all wrong for Moro. As for a missing link piece, i doubt this kris is old enough for that and given the form of what we know as "archaic" early form kris you would think that a transition piece would carry more of the Indo features that the early kris had such as a well defined sogokan.