Lance?

[kronckew]

just picked these up this week, billed as a 'ANTIQUE NATIVE NORTH AMERICAN INDIAN LANCE SPEAR ENDS'

somehow i do not see them as native american, but that is not my area of collection, my family is part blackfoot, but don't think we've used lances in the past....

the two little bumps along the edge are a bit odd, the edge is sharp to just before them, and the chisel point is also sharp & appears made that way & not a broken tip. forging is rough & undecorated. tail piece also rough forged, some compacted clay soil was in the grooved bit. sockets are 20mm. OD.

[Tim Simmons]

Look a bit like Naga spears? Like the one top left.

[kronckew]

methinks, kind sir, that you are most correct:

a side-by-side comparison of mine & your photo.

yrs. lost a bit of detail on blowing it up to match.

i noted this pair on the internet:

notation being the ones decorated with hair are ceremonial, mine looks more like a user with function more important than form..... the description also mentions the butt spike used to stick it in the ground, it was not leaned against a wall. it said also the shaft would be made of 'some type of wood', guess rattan might be a good choice, they also note they were about 6 ft. long & 'effective for about 30 yards' so i guess they were meant to be throwable. they apparently were used in pairs, with the dao short sword for close work....

[Jim McDougall]

Nicely done Tim! Spot on as always I was puzzled by these, but felt as well that they were not Native American. Most of the steel examples of Native American seem to have fully formed socket and similar leaf type head with central ridge, typically Spanish colonial provenance.

Kronckew, it is most interesting on your mention of Blackfoot ancestry. During travels through the plains last summer, I became very interested in Native American weapons, and it seems at one time or another we were always passing through, or often encamped at, various tribal lands.

I wanted to let you know that the Blackfoot confederation were considered one of the most dominant tribal factions, and often most feared by both White and other tribes with whom they were at odds. These warriors did indeed use the lance, however thier lance heads were typically bone, with a concave cross section ("Mystic Warriors of the Plains", Thomas E. Mails, N.Y.1972, p.447) ; or of bluestone, with a rather flat cross section. These bluestone heads were outstandingly made, and quite heavy, often serving as an effective club (op.cit.p444). The war lances shafts were often highly decorated and shorter than the undecorated hunting lance shafts. It is said the shorter the shaft, the greater the courage of the warrior.

While this topic typically finds limited interest here, I was pleased you brought it up with your post and note, and couldnt resist the temptation to share some information on this extremely important plains tribe.

All the best,
Jim

[katana]

Hi,
like Jim, I am very intriqued by the fact that Native American weaponary rarely appears on this forum, with so many on this forum living on 'that side of the pond' .... is there any particular reason

Ethnographic weapons indiginous to the UK would be many centuries old and way...way out of my price range.


Regards David

[Jim McDougall]

Hi David,
I think the fact that for the most part, actual weapons are somewhat rare, and there are of course constant doubtful examples of course for sale at unbelievable prices. I think you had mentioned before your interest in these weapons, and it seems there are some others, but the topic seldom reaches in depth follow up. I think one of the last discussions were on tomahawks and one on markings found on arrows.

It is interesting though, as these are true American ethnographic weapons.


All the best,
Jim