Indian scrpt mark translation help needed

spiral · 3rd December 2007, 11:21 PM

This mark is on one of the kukris apparently originaly sold in Germany in C.1970. listed as bieng from the Marajha of Jodhpurs armoury made for his Jodhpur State lancers for use in WW1. {Something I have been unable to find any evidence of so far.}

I presume its Shivas triden & a script mark?

All input & help welcome, but especialy Olikaras!

Spiral

olikara · 4th December 2007, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spiral

I presume its Shivas triden & a script mark?
Spiral

Spiral, your presumption is correct. The script reads 'Bhi-Ma-Va-Ji'

'Bhima' is one of the 108 names attributed to Lord Shiva and the Trident is his choice weapon.

However, like you I am quite surprised to note that the Rajputs used Khukris in battle and that too in WW1.

olikara · 4th December 2007, 11:28 AM

On second thoughts, the Khukri would have been very advantageous to the Rajputs in the trench warfare seen in WW1.

spiral · 4th December 2007, 03:35 PM

Thankyou Olikara! thats great.

I think kukris are well known in jodhpur but personaly I do have doubts re. there issue to Lancer cavalry units in ww1, {another story was that the Marajah raised a troop of Gurkhas for the British in WW1 but I have been able to totaly disprove that.} They certanly seem to be from Jodhpur region & they could easily be ww1 era, but evry photo or book I have read so far about the Jodhpur lancers niether shows or mentions the kukri. I rather wonder if the were just, police , palice guard etc?

But more reserch is neccasary. some of the handles are also marked in English, FG & a number , in the Brit army FG means Frontier Garrison but I have no idea about in Jodhpur.

Spiral

Jim McDougall · 4th December 2007, 11:26 PM

It seems that while the kukri was obviously the well known weapon of the famed Gurkha regiments, by the late 19th century and of course throughout the 20th, these weapons were produced commercially for the military. I am not sure that these were used by units outside the Gurkhas without further research, but would not be surprised if they were. By WWI, there seems to have begun much of the reorganization and amalgamation of units that hallmarked considerable changes in the army. I dont think it was that unusual for units that had become gallantly labelled 'lancer' regiments to end up being utilized in many diverse capacities as the monumental undertaking of the "Great War' devoured resources.
I do know that the Gurkhas did eventually become well known in police and security capacities even to this day, and this type assignment was of course probably established for them often during peace time. It would not seem unlikely that a weapon such as the kukri would have been adopted by any forces who assumed duties that were outside thier original designation, such as if these lancers did become more diversified in wartime.

The 'frontier garrison' markings of course suggest the Northwest Frontier, where British forces were certainly diminished by the demand for them as reinforcements on the fronts were required by the war. I think one of the most fascinating aspects of WWI is that there were so many associated effects in so many worldwide regions, and these are seldom noted or discussed in the study of this war.

spiral · 5th December 2007, 12:16 AM

Hello Jim, Garhwali, Kuamon & Dogra troops {amongst others.] have used kukri for as long as the British inlisted Gurkhas have.

By mid Victorean times many Assam & Burma units did as well.

Many Sikh officers & later Chindit & even British , american & Australian air & tank crew in Burma in ww2 also used them. So did US special forces & even the OSS. This is all well recoreded.

Great point re. diversification of Lancers, there records do indeed show ground attacks & trench warfare in 1914/15 etc. i am just resistant to accepting salemans stories without evidence as I have learnt to do that to protect true knowledge as well as my finance.

Many collecters, forumites & dealers in the 1990s sold them as "kukri for the Gurkha regiment supplied by Maj. of Jodhpur" BNut Brit . Army records show he provided no infantry to europe in ww1 & just one regiment in ww2 of which 8 men were recorded as Gurkhas. " All of whom served in BURMA. {As did one of his sons.]

I have seen mayby 60 photos of the Jodhpuh lancers in France & Palistine in ww1, so far none show a kukri....

Personlay I would love to find some evidence to show the Jodhpuh lancers used kukri. but so far I am still skeptical of yet another "another arms & armour dealers sales pitch." Same as i am with car dealers & estate agents.

The currant currater of the Jodhpur armoury & museam states that he is "unaware of any kukri made for the jodhpur lancers." which doesnt mean they wernt, but it doesnt mean they were either.

Further research may reveal more, hopefully.

Spiral

3rd December 2007, 11:21 PM	#1
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	Indian scrpt mark translation help needed This mark is on one of the kukris apparently originaly sold in Germany in C.1970. listed as bieng from the Marajha of Jodhpurs armoury made for his Jodhpur State lancers for use in WW1. {Something I have been unable to find any evidence of so far.} I presume its Shivas triden & a script mark? All input & help welcome, but especialy Olikaras! Spiral

4th December 2007, 11:28 AM	#3
olikara Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: India Posts: 100	Trench Warfare On second thoughts, the Khukri would have been very advantageous to the Rajputs in the trench warfare seen in WW1.

4th December 2007, 03:35 PM	#4
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	Thankyou Olikara! thats great. I think kukris are well known in jodhpur but personaly I do have doubts re. there issue to Lancer cavalry units in ww1, {another story was that the Marajah raised a troop of Gurkhas for the British in WW1 but I have been able to totaly disprove that.} They certanly seem to be from Jodhpur region & they could easily be ww1 era, but evry photo or book I have read so far about the Jodhpur lancers niether shows or mentions the kukri. I rather wonder if the were just, police , palice guard etc? But more reserch is neccasary. some of the handles are also marked in English, FG & a number , in the Brit army FG means Frontier Garrison but I have no idea about in Jodhpur. Spiral

4th December 2007, 11:26 PM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,945	It seems that while the kukri was obviously the well known weapon of the famed Gurkha regiments, by the late 19th century and of course throughout the 20th, these weapons were produced commercially for the military. I am not sure that these were used by units outside the Gurkhas without further research, but would not be surprised if they were. By WWI, there seems to have begun much of the reorganization and amalgamation of units that hallmarked considerable changes in the army. I dont think it was that unusual for units that had become gallantly labelled 'lancer' regiments to end up being utilized in many diverse capacities as the monumental undertaking of the "Great War' devoured resources. I do know that the Gurkhas did eventually become well known in police and security capacities even to this day, and this type assignment was of course probably established for them often during peace time. It would not seem unlikely that a weapon such as the kukri would have been adopted by any forces who assumed duties that were outside thier original designation, such as if these lancers did become more diversified in wartime. The 'frontier garrison' markings of course suggest the Northwest Frontier, where British forces were certainly diminished by the demand for them as reinforcements on the fronts were required by the war. I think one of the most fascinating aspects of WWI is that there were so many associated effects in so many worldwide regions, and these are seldom noted or discussed in the study of this war.

5th December 2007, 12:16 AM	#6
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	Hello Jim, Garhwali, Kuamon & Dogra troops {amongst others.] have used kukri for as long as the British inlisted Gurkhas have. By mid Victorean times many Assam & Burma units did as well. Many Sikh officers & later Chindit & even British , american & Australian air & tank crew in Burma in ww2 also used them. So did US special forces & even the OSS. This is all well recoreded. Great point re. diversification of Lancers, there records do indeed show ground attacks & trench warfare in 1914/15 etc. i am just resistant to accepting salemans stories without evidence as I have learnt to do that to protect true knowledge as well as my finance. Many collecters, forumites & dealers in the 1990s sold them as "kukri for the Gurkha regiment supplied by Maj. of Jodhpur" BNut Brit . Army records show he provided no infantry to europe in ww1 & just one regiment in ww2 of which 8 men were recorded as Gurkhas. " All of whom served in BURMA. {As did one of his sons.] I have seen mayby 60 photos of the Jodhpuh lancers in France & Palistine in ww1, so far none show a kukri.... Personlay I would love to find some evidence to show the Jodhpuh lancers used kukri. but so far I am still skeptical of yet another "another arms & armour dealers sales pitch." Same as i am with car dealers & estate agents. The currant currater of the Jodhpur armoury & museam states that he is "unaware of any kukri made for the jodhpur lancers." which doesnt mean they wernt, but it doesnt mean they were either. Further research may reveal more, hopefully. Spiral