1908/ 1912 Pattern British Army Cavalry Sword

katana · 30th November 2006, 07:31 PM

Again I appologise....since this is not truly an ethnographic weapon....but could be of interest...
This Cavalry Sabre has a blade length of approx. 33'' (84 cms), chequered strap, greyshark/Ray skin handle with (possibly) silver wire, and a pierced "honeysuckle" hilt.
I think this is a 1912 version. The blade is embossed with George V cypher, a crown with 'sunrays', a coat of arms (which is obscured in places) and some foliage. It is proof marked and has the number 2887 stamped on the spine. No makers mark.
The scabbard is a 'Sam Brown' service issue in brown leather.

This sword is undoubtably a 'thrusting' weapon, light, nicely balanced and good arm/blade alignment in a forward strike.

.......and now the point of this thread....the hilt has been cut down.... effectively the 'knuckle bow' has been removed. This must have been done very early in its life, the 'patina' of the cut edge is consistant with the rest of the hilt. Was there a practical reason for this? I understand that the hilts sometimes 'snagged' on clothing.
The overall condition, scabbard etc suggests that this sword saw active service during WW!, and that this 'modification' was a possible 'improvement'. Alternatively the hilt may have been damaged during service (shrapnel? bullet?) or more likely ...accidental.

Any ideas or suggestions

Tim Simmons · 30th November 2006, 07:50 PM

Not an area I know much about but I am sure this is a earlier pattern sword than the one you mention. Maybe not even a cavalry sword. Still in use at the time.

Tim Simmons · 30th November 2006, 08:07 PM

It appears to be an 1897 infantry officers sword.

fernando · 30th November 2006, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

It appears to be an 1897 infantry officers sword.

Sorry Tim, i didn't check you had already sent your second post. Yours is already a better opinnion.
regards

katana · 30th November 2006, 08:48 PM

Thankyou Gentleman,
as you can tell British swords are not my forte

.
But this 'caught' my eye....I like the idea that a sword may have a story..or two. This seems to fit the 'criteria'.....I feel that the sword hilt was 'modified' to improve its serviceability in the 'field'. But that is just my assumption. I do know that these swords were carried and, sometimes used during the conflict of WW1. I think I am right in saying that the last British Cavalry charge occurred during that terrible war.

Thanks Fernando, I will do some checking on the possible maker....greatly appreciate you finding this out.

As regards 'fencing'.........it certainly has that feel........I've been lunging, sword in hand..to the 'chorus' of 'en guarde' for several minutes......sad..but true

fernando · 30th November 2006, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by katana

As regards 'fencing'.........it certainly has that feel........I've been lunging, sword in hand..to the 'chorus' of 'en guarde' for several minutes......sad..but true

Well, that falls again into the fantasy area. Fantasies are vital for one's mental health.

fernando · 30th November 2006, 08:20 PM

Hi Katana
Until better opinnion, this is a George V officers pattern 1897 sword.
I am looking at an Andrew Bottomley catalogue, with a couple of these. A most similar one, with same guard design and scabbard model, blade shape and length, etc, is quoted to have being made by John Dixon and Sons Shefield.
The large basket guard is nickle plated, by the way.
The knuckle guard is rather large, as being the tapering prolongation of the basket. Could it be that it was extracted with the purpose of modifying the sword for fencing ? Just my fantasy.
Regards
fernando

30th November 2006, 07:31 PM	#1
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	1908/ 1912 Pattern British Army Cavalry Sword Again I appologise....since this is not truly an ethnographic weapon....but could be of interest... This Cavalry Sabre has a blade length of approx. 33'' (84 cms), chequered strap, greyshark/Ray skin handle with (possibly) silver wire, and a pierced "honeysuckle" hilt. I think this is a 1912 version. The blade is embossed with George V cypher, a crown with 'sunrays', a coat of arms (which is obscured in places) and some foliage. It is proof marked and has the number 2887 stamped on the spine. No makers mark. The scabbard is a 'Sam Brown' service issue in brown leather. This sword is undoubtably a 'thrusting' weapon, light, nicely balanced and good arm/blade alignment in a forward strike. .......and now the point of this thread....the hilt has been cut down.... effectively the 'knuckle bow' has been removed. This must have been done very early in its life, the 'patina' of the cut edge is consistant with the rest of the hilt. Was there a practical reason for this? I understand that the hilts sometimes 'snagged' on clothing. The overall condition, scabbard etc suggests that this sword saw active service during WW!, and that this 'modification' was a possible 'improvement'. Alternatively the hilt may have been damaged during service (shrapnel? bullet?) or more likely ...accidental. Any ideas or suggestions Attached Images

30th November 2006, 07:50 PM	#2
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,783	Not an area I know much about but I am sure this is a earlier pattern sword than the one you mention. Maybe not even a cavalry sword. Still in use at the time.

30th November 2006, 08:07 PM	#3
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,783	It appears to be an 1897 infantry officers sword.

30th November 2006, 08:48 PM	#5
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Thankyou Gentleman, as you can tell British swords are not my forte . But this 'caught' my eye....I like the idea that a sword may have a story..or two. This seems to fit the 'criteria'.....I feel that the sword hilt was 'modified' to improve its serviceability in the 'field'. But that is just my assumption. I do know that these swords were carried and, sometimes used during the conflict of WW1. I think I am right in saying that the last British Cavalry charge occurred during that terrible war. Thanks Fernando, I will do some checking on the possible maker....greatly appreciate you finding this out. As regards 'fencing'.........it certainly has that feel........I've been lunging, sword in hand..to the 'chorus' of 'en guarde' for several minutes......sad..but true

30th November 2006, 08:20 PM	#7
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Hi Katana Until better opinnion, this is a George V officers pattern 1897 sword. I am looking at an Andrew Bottomley catalogue, with a couple of these. A most similar one, with same guard design and scabbard model, blade shape and length, etc, is quoted to have being made by John Dixon and Sons Shefield. The large basket guard is nickle plated, by the way. The knuckle guard is rather large, as being the tapering prolongation of the basket. Could it be that it was extracted with the purpose of modifying the sword for fencing ? Just my fantasy. Regards fernando