Old Tibetan Phurba for comment or information

katana · 22nd October 2006, 06:36 PM

Hi everybody...
A Tibetan Phurba, old and large 75cms long many are only 25-30cms.
Carved wood (wood is a scarce commodity in the region), very nice patina.
Not a weapon in the accepted sense, but a 'Spiritual, weapon which maybe of interest.....

' The Shaman's ritual tool from Nepal.The Phurba, a ceremonial dagger, is a central ritual tool for all shamanic rituals-so central, in fact, that its use is rarely specified but simply presumed.While other objects of similar shape can be considered phurba, it is usually a "knife" with three distinct segments, one of which is a characteristic three sided blade or point. The segments and the triple blade represent the three spirit worlds, while the phurba as a whole symbolises the "world axis" binding all three worlds together.But it is more than a ritual object; during a healing it is the jhankari himself. During his trance, the jhankari transforms his spiritual body into a phurba and takes flight through the spirit world in this form.'

Any info or comments would be most appreciated......thankyou

Tim Simmons · 22nd October 2006, 06:48 PM

Hi David.

Where did you get this? Who said it was Tibetan? I only ask as I do not think this is from anywhere near Asia.

Tim Simmons · 22nd October 2006, 06:59 PM

The coloured cloth and light glare are making reading your picture quite difficult. Hard to get an idea of any patina. Can you take some day light pics on something a little more neutral. I am certain this is nothing to do with Tibet.

Battara · 22nd October 2006, 08:36 PM

I am quite sure that it is not a Tibetan phurba, though wooden ones do exist. Could this be a Bon phurba or a piece from a different culture altogether?

Tim Simmons · 22nd October 2006, 08:40 PM

Perhaps it is Tibetan

The outlined part is very much like one of those thunder bolt things? and the fish could be buddist symbols. I still have doubts. If it is Tibetan from your pictures it does seem it may be fairly recent. Nearly ever antique I vist has something Tibetan/Chinese. The style is very much like other areas. Day light pics would help.

Rich · 22nd October 2006, 08:40 PM

I've several antique Tibetan purbu. None look anything like this. IMHO, the
carving and design looks more African in origin.

Rich

Tim Simmons · 22nd October 2006, 08:45 PM

I do not think it is African. I will hold back untill we see some better pics but I am glad you think the same. The style of the fish and the overall decoration scream something else to me.

Bill M · 22nd October 2006, 10:45 PM

I agree this piece has several stylistic differences with Tibetan and Nepalese phurbas. The center section outlined does resemble the dorje, but I think only a resemblance. The faces on the sides look like African Dan masks.

Quite a strange piece.

M ELEY · 9th December 2006, 12:07 AM

Excellent discussion and information,guys! I've always been fascinated in these pieces and really thought at the beginning of this discussion that this was an African depiction of a phurbu (I was trying to think of any Buddhist influence or colonies on the African coast). Now I want to read up on the Bon. Thanks again!

22nd October 2006, 06:36 PM	#1
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Old Tibetan Phurba for comment or information Hi everybody... A Tibetan Phurba, old and large 75cms long many are only 25-30cms. Carved wood (wood is a scarce commodity in the region), very nice patina. Not a weapon in the accepted sense, but a 'Spiritual, weapon which maybe of interest..... ' The Shaman's ritual tool from Nepal.The Phurba, a ceremonial dagger, is a central ritual tool for all shamanic rituals-so central, in fact, that its use is rarely specified but simply presumed.While other objects of similar shape can be considered phurba, it is usually a "knife" with three distinct segments, one of which is a characteristic three sided blade or point. The segments and the triple blade represent the three spirit worlds, while the phurba as a whole symbolises the "world axis" binding all three worlds together.But it is more than a ritual object; during a healing it is the jhankari himself. During his trance, the jhankari transforms his spiritual body into a phurba and takes flight through the spirit world in this form.' Any info or comments would be most appreciated......thankyou Attached Images

22nd October 2006, 08:40 PM	#5
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,925	Perhaps it is Tibetan The outlined part is very much like one of those thunder bolt things? and the fish could be buddist symbols. I still have doubts. If it is Tibetan from your pictures it does seem it may be fairly recent. Nearly ever antique I vist has something Tibetan/Chinese. The style is very much like other areas. Day light pics would help. Attached Images

22nd October 2006, 06:48 PM	#2
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,925	Hi David. Where did you get this? Who said it was Tibetan? I only ask as I do not think this is from anywhere near Asia.

22nd October 2006, 06:59 PM	#3
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,925	The coloured cloth and light glare are making reading your picture quite difficult. Hard to get an idea of any patina. Can you take some day light pics on something a little more neutral. I am certain this is nothing to do with Tibet.

22nd October 2006, 08:36 PM	#4
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,345	I am quite sure that it is not a Tibetan phurba, though wooden ones do exist. Could this be a Bon phurba or a piece from a different culture altogether?

22nd October 2006, 08:40 PM	#6
Rich Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: comfortably at home, USA Posts: 432	I've several antique Tibetan purbu. None look anything like this. IMHO, the carving and design looks more African in origin. Rich

22nd October 2006, 08:45 PM	#7
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,925	I do not think it is African. I will hold back untill we see some better pics but I am glad you think the same. The style of the fish and the overall decoration scream something else to me.

22nd October 2006, 10:45 PM	#8
Bill M Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Georgia Posts: 1,599	I agree this piece has several stylistic differences with Tibetan and Nepalese phurbas. The center section outlined does resemble the dorje, but I think only a resemblance. The faces on the sides look like African Dan masks. Quite a strange piece.

9th December 2006, 12:07 AM	#9
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,206	Excellent discussion and information,guys! I've always been fascinated in these pieces and really thought at the beginning of this discussion that this was an African depiction of a phurbu (I was trying to think of any Buddhist influence or colonies on the African coast). Now I want to read up on the Bon. Thanks again!