Ottoman silver shamshir sword

eftihis · 18th February 2025, 11:16 AM

A nice Turkish ottoman shamshir with silver scabbard and rhino hilt. This looks like an early war trophy from the revolution of 1821, since it has the symbol of the cross engraved (obviously latter that the manufacture date) on both sides of the guard, and in one side the date 1822. Also engraved the symbol of double headed eagle.

gp · 18th February 2025, 09:14 PM

very nice one ! My compliments.

The double headed eagle made me think of 3 potential "culprits" :

Russia,
Albania,
the Holy Roman empire

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-headed_eagle

but most likely it is or could be related to Ali Pasha of Ioannina
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali_Pasha_of_Ioannina

who had his role in the strive for independence in the region, next to being a link to the Hellenistic region .

Tip for those interested in the latter; a most interesting and beautiful book... "Captain Michalis / Ο Καπετάν Μιχάλης " (AKA Freedom or Death) by Nikos Kazantzakis

TVV · 18th February 2025, 10:08 PM

The eagle was a symbol of the Eastern Roman Empire for many centuries before Russia even thought of adopting it...

OsobistGB · 19th February 2025, 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TVV

The eagle was a symbol of the Eastern Roman Empire for many centuries before Russia even thought of adopting it...

After the fall of Constantinople in 1453, the Eastern Roman Empire ceased to exist. Historical sources provide insight into the connection between the double-headed eagle and Russia, which claims to be the successor of Rome and Constantinople.

Ian · 19th February 2025, 02:32 PM

Osobist,

Your version of history is very Russocentric and not reflective of the persistence of the Eastern Orthodox Church, and of course the Roman Catholic Church which has remained in Rome. I have edited your post to remove your version of "historical facts," as I consider these are provocative comments that should not be pursued further here. Anyone responding to the issues you raised will have their comments deleted because this topic is extraneous to the present discussion and likely to lead to friction.

Ian

TVV · 19th February 2025, 05:30 PM

All I was trying to point out is that the double headed eagle, 1822 date, initials and Greek cross which were added to the original silver fittings are most likely associated with the Eastern Roman Empire and the dream of its revival in the context of Greek nationalism in the early 19th century. Basically, I am in agreement with Eftihis on this.

If someone believes the symbol should be interpreted differently, I doubt anyone would be against well reasoned arguments.

18th February 2025, 11:16 AM	#1
eftihis Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Chania Crete Greece Posts: 511	Ottoman silver shamshir sword A nice Turkish ottoman shamshir with silver scabbard and rhino hilt. This looks like an early war trophy from the revolution of 1821, since it has the symbol of the cross engraved (obviously latter that the manufacture date) on both sides of the guard, and in one side the date 1822. Also engraved the symbol of double headed eagle. Attached Images

19th February 2025, 02:32 PM	#5
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,303	Off topic and contentious Osobist, Your version of history is very Russocentric and not reflective of the persistence of the Eastern Orthodox Church, and of course the Roman Catholic Church which has remained in Rome. I have edited your post to remove your version of "historical facts," as I consider these are provocative comments that should not be pursued further here. Anyone responding to the issues you raised will have their comments deleted because this topic is extraneous to the present discussion and likely to lead to friction. Ian Last edited by Ian; 19th February 2025 at 02:51 PM.

18th February 2025, 09:14 PM	#2
gp Member Join Date: May 2020 Posts: 806	very nice one ! My compliments. The double headed eagle made me think of 3 potential "culprits" : Russia, Albania, the Holy Roman empire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-headed_eagle but most likely it is or could be related to Ali Pasha of Ioannina https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali_Pasha_of_Ioannina who had his role in the strive for independence in the region, next to being a link to the Hellenistic region . Tip for those interested in the latter; a most interesting and beautiful book... "Captain Michalis / Ο Καπετάν Μιχάλης " (AKA Freedom or Death) by Nikos Kazantzakis

18th February 2025, 10:08 PM	#3
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,657	The eagle was a symbol of the Eastern Roman Empire for many centuries before Russia even thought of adopting it...

19th February 2025, 05:30 PM	#6
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,657	All I was trying to point out is that the double headed eagle, 1822 date, initials and Greek cross which were added to the original silver fittings are most likely associated with the Eastern Roman Empire and the dream of its revival in the context of Greek nationalism in the early 19th century. Basically, I am in agreement with Eftihis on this. If someone believes the symbol should be interpreted differently, I doubt anyone would be against well reasoned arguments.