Mystery Shamshir

kronckew · 21st June 2022, 10:48 AM

I think it's maybe Caucasian or Cossack From Eastern Europe somewhere, and later 19thc with a fine wootz Shamshir blade from Persia. It was bought as it is, its scabbard is made this way for edge up carry. With the scabbard hanging mounts this way up as they do not fit the other way around so have to be correct, as they are. The scabbard is the original wood but has at some time had a covering of the old lacquered cloth tape, under it is the old wood. The slightly odd pommel has a mushroom-likefitting for a loop for a chain, and the lower cross guard has a small loop for a chain too, though the chain is missing. The grip straps continue the floral motif of the pommel.

The mounts are more a bronze than brass, almost looking like phosphor bronze but likely not, certainly are not yellow brass.

The hilt scales are of bone, could be camel bone or other (?), they and all the hilt mounts are original to the sword which certainly is not a made up piece or marriage of parts done in recent years.

The rose on the cross guard must be symbolic, someone should surely be able to say where it is actually from, I hope so.

A friend who bought it in auction in UK, he suspected a wootz shamshir blade as soon as he saw it and felt its weight, after a quick clean of one side of the blade he used a weak solution of ferric chloride and the wootz pattern popped, as here in the pics.

So, the questions he would like to ask is origin, Russian Zlatoust and made with a Persian Shamshir blade? Maybe From close by to Russia and the same with Persian blade? Turkish?

Although it's not ladder or sham, lastly Indian made for maybe the western market or is if European made with a fine Persian wootz blade, it's like a razor too, and it's the expected size for a shamshir, obviously it's not one, but what is it by name, and where is it from, the date would be likely late 19th c, or very early 20th?

kronckew · 21st June 2022, 11:36 AM

For comparison, my mystery 'Rose' shamshir:

mahratt · 21st June 2022, 12:06 PM

Hello, kronckew

This shamshir has nothing to do with Russia or the Caucasus.

Tim Simmons · 21st June 2022, 05:07 PM

Indian mid 20th century.

21st June 2022, 10:48 AM	#1
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,183	Mystery Shamshir I think it's maybe Caucasian or Cossack From Eastern Europe somewhere, and later 19thc with a fine wootz Shamshir blade from Persia. It was bought as it is, its scabbard is made this way for edge up carry. With the scabbard hanging mounts this way up as they do not fit the other way around so have to be correct, as they are. The scabbard is the original wood but has at some time had a covering of the old lacquered cloth tape, under it is the old wood. The slightly odd pommel has a mushroom-likefitting for a loop for a chain, and the lower cross guard has a small loop for a chain too, though the chain is missing. The grip straps continue the floral motif of the pommel. The mounts are more a bronze than brass, almost looking like phosphor bronze but likely not, certainly are not yellow brass. The hilt scales are of bone, could be camel bone or other (?), they and all the hilt mounts are original to the sword which certainly is not a made up piece or marriage of parts done in recent years. The rose on the cross guard must be symbolic, someone should surely be able to say where it is actually from, I hope so. A friend who bought it in auction in UK, he suspected a wootz shamshir blade as soon as he saw it and felt its weight, after a quick clean of one side of the blade he used a weak solution of ferric chloride and the wootz pattern popped, as here in the pics. So, the questions he would like to ask is origin, Russian Zlatoust and made with a Persian Shamshir blade? Maybe From close by to Russia and the same with Persian blade? Turkish? Although it's not ladder or sham, lastly Indian made for maybe the western market or is if European made with a fine Persian wootz blade, it's like a razor too, and it's the expected size for a shamshir, obviously it's not one, but what is it by name, and where is it from, the date would be likely late 19th c, or very early 20th? Attached Images Last edited by kronckew; 21st June 2022 at 11:18 AM.

21st June 2022, 11:36 AM	#2
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,183	For comparison, my mystery 'Rose' shamshir: Attached Images

21st June 2022, 12:06 PM	#3
mahratt Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Russia Posts: 1,042	Hello, kronckew This shamshir has nothing to do with Russia or the Caucasus.

21st June 2022, 05:07 PM	#4
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	Indian mid 20th century.