My new Palembang kris

milandro · 2nd February 2022, 12:13 PM

I have purchased this kris which I believe is a Palengban keris.

I think this kris has some age and I plan to have it washed in warangan by the person whom I trust with this treatment. Looking at the blade there are some signs of pamor but they are not so clear that one can say what it is at this stage (and perhaps even later). I will be posting, later on, after the treatment some pictures.

De Ukiran appears to be what many may call a Durga hilt ( I have read on this forum of the diverse interpretations about this type of hilt). It has some damage at the base but it must have happened a long time ago.

I was thinking about replacing the hilt with a suitable replacement (any suggestion whether to do it or not). They are not easy to come by in the Netherlands.

Looking at the “ Seluth” (if I may call it so, I don’t know) I don’t know if it was always with this kris or not.

One question is ( and I know it is a difficult one to answer) about the “ stones” , this certainly appears to be a rather humble seluth (or whatever this form is called) but the “ stones” are unusually looking “ real” compared to other examples of “ stones” on de mendaks that I have.

Now this may be glass or quartz but I am not an expert , how would one tell if they are real stones or (dare I say) a low grade diamond? I understand this may be only wishful thinking!

Please tell me your opinions on this, bear in mind that I am just a beginner in the kris world and I am still just trying to find my way around it.

Jean · 2nd February 2022, 02:15 PM

This keris originates from South Sumatra (Palembang, Lampung, or Bengkulu) and the hilt in Durga or Puteri Malu (shy princess) style is suitable. The selut/ pendokok is probably not original and I don't know about the stones materials.
The blade seems to have an indistinct pamor pattern (sanak) so I don't know how it will look like after warangan treatment.
Regards

Jean · 2nd February 2022, 02:20 PM

Similar hilts with suitable seluts.

David · 2nd February 2022, 02:46 PM

While i have heard some people suggest this hilt could be Durga i see absolutely no evidence or obvious indication that it represents that goddess. Frankly i don't even see any indication that the figure is intended to be female. But i am much more willing to accept the Putri Malu (shy princess) association than Durga. We do see what appears to be a stylized crown on the figure, so probably this was intended to represent a royal figure. Whether male of female i could not say, but the Shy Princess title has been around for a while.
While this selut is a little unusual and perhaps a bit blingy for this modest keris, it does appear to be well made and specifically created for this hilt. The metal appears to be silver if i am not mistaken. The stones could be quartz or the might just be glass. There seems to be a bit too much sparkle for these to be low quality diamonds and i doubt someone would have put high quality diamonds on this selut. The obvious answer to how to solve this question is simply to bring the selut to a jeweler for appraisal. There is no way t tell from your photographs what these actually are.
If this were mine, aside from cleaning the blade i would polish up the silver on that selut. Silver is not meant to appear tarnished on a keris. Also, your wood looks a bit thirsty. I think this keris will clean up nicely. And even if the selut is a bit flashy for the this otherwise humble keris i think i would keep it rather than replace it.

milandro · 9th February 2022, 04:29 PM

I have asked a friend with one of these machines to test diamonds and no it isn’t a diamond, several people in the shop agreed they may have been zirconia.

I have been getting to clean this but not all the tarnish came off and to use a polishing wheel would be really too much.

The dress was cleaned and then oiled even when I took the pictures and has been oiled more with scented oil.

Having said this, I’ve sent the wilah to be washed with warangan at a local expert and he will return it in a few days. I am curios to see what the pamor will look like. It was definitely present but discerning it from the tarnish was not easy. I will show it when it arrives.

Yes, I am aware of this being a simple keris but they are very rare in the Netherlands at least, while there are tons of Javanese kerisses the Palembang are fare and very few apart. So, I am happy with this example and who knows, maybe one day I will get some more.

The Hilt remains a “ problem”, I understand it is a correct hilt and that the ‘ damage” is in fact very common in these hilts, nevertheless my ambition is to try to improve on the looks with an hilt less plain than this. I’d be grateful if someone would come up with some suggestions for alternative hilts (so, not more of the same).

Jean · 9th February 2022, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milandro

The Hilt remains a “ problem”, I understand it is a correct hilt and that the ‘ damage” is in fact very common in these hilts, nevertheless my ambition is to try to improve on the looks with an hilt less plain than this. I’d be grateful if someone would come up with some suggestions for alternative hilts (so, not more of the same).

See few other types of Palembang or South Sumatra style hilts (not for sale).

Sajen · 12th February 2022, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

While this selut is a little unusual and perhaps a bit blingy for this modest keris, it does appear to be well made and specifically created for this hilt. The metal appears to be silver if i am not mistaken. The stones could be quartz or the might just be glass. There seems to be a bit too much sparkle for these to be low quality diamonds and i doubt someone would have put high quality diamonds on this selut. The obvious answer to how to solve this question is simply to bring the selut to a jeweler for appraisal. There is no way t tell from your photographs what these actually are.
If this were mine, aside from cleaning the blade i would polish up the silver on that selut. Silver is not meant to appear tarnished on a keris. Also, your wood looks a bit thirsty. I think this keris will clean up nicely. And even if the selut is a bit flashy for the this otherwise humble keris i think i would keep it rather than replace it.

I agree with David, I woudn't change something by this keris.

Regards,
Detlef

kai · 12th February 2022, 07:42 PM

Quote:

I agree with David, I woudn't change something by this keris.

I beg to differ, Detlef: IMHO this selut is an abomination! I'm not referring to the "stones" but rather to its broad opening! This certainly is a later replacement and crafted by someone with pretty one-dimensional skills regarding metalwork. The hilt shows very well how the selut should really taper out with an elegant curve (also some suitable examples shown in this thread)!

OTOH, the hilt is perfectly fine. I'd give it some more TLC: It seems to have been painted at some point; I'd keep oiling it and working the surface with very fine steel wool until obtaining a pretty uniform surface. If done correctly/gently, even most of the actual patina of the wood may remain.

The blade looks like an imported blade, possibly from Madura? (It may also be locally done - Palembang is known to copy styles from all over, especially from Jawa and Sunda. Do I assume correctly that the scabbard is a good fit for the blade?

Except for the selut, this is a good ensemble possibly originating from Palembang or likely Lampung. While keris from Madura/Jawa/Sunda are much more numerous, keris from southern Sumatra are not extremely rare (especially in NL) - just keep looking!

Regards,
Kai

2nd February 2022, 12:13 PM	#1
milandro Member Join Date: Jan 2022 Location: Netherlands Posts: 475	My new Palembang kris I have purchased this kris which I believe is a Palengban keris. I think this kris has some age and I plan to have it washed in warangan by the person whom I trust with this treatment. Looking at the blade there are some signs of pamor but they are not so clear that one can say what it is at this stage (and perhaps even later). I will be posting, later on, after the treatment some pictures. De Ukiran appears to be what many may call a Durga hilt ( I have read on this forum of the diverse interpretations about this type of hilt). It has some damage at the base but it must have happened a long time ago. I was thinking about replacing the hilt with a suitable replacement (any suggestion whether to do it or not). They are not easy to come by in the Netherlands. Looking at the “ Seluth” (if I may call it so, I don’t know) I don’t know if it was always with this kris or not. One question is ( and I know it is a difficult one to answer) about the “ stones” , this certainly appears to be a rather humble seluth (or whatever this form is called) but the “ stones” are unusually looking “ real” compared to other examples of “ stones” on de mendaks that I have. Now this may be glass or quartz but I am not an expert , how would one tell if they are real stones or (dare I say) a low grade diamond? I understand this may be only wishful thinking! Please tell me your opinions on this, bear in mind that I am just a beginner in the kris world and I am still just trying to find my way around it. Attached Images

2nd February 2022, 02:15 PM	#2
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	This keris originates from South Sumatra (Palembang, Lampung, or Bengkulu) and the hilt in Durga or Puteri Malu (shy princess) style is suitable. The selut/ pendokok is probably not original and I don't know about the stones materials. The blade seems to have an indistinct pamor pattern (sanak) so I don't know how it will look like after warangan treatment. Regards Last edited by Jean; 2nd February 2022 at 06:28 PM.

2nd February 2022, 02:20 PM	#3
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Similar hilts with suitable seluts. Attached Images

2nd February 2022, 02:46 PM	#4
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,123	While i have heard some people suggest this hilt could be Durga i see absolutely no evidence or obvious indication that it represents that goddess. Frankly i don't even see any indication that the figure is intended to be female. But i am much more willing to accept the Putri Malu (shy princess) association than Durga. We do see what appears to be a stylized crown on the figure, so probably this was intended to represent a royal figure. Whether male of female i could not say, but the Shy Princess title has been around for a while. While this selut is a little unusual and perhaps a bit blingy for this modest keris, it does appear to be well made and specifically created for this hilt. The metal appears to be silver if i am not mistaken. The stones could be quartz or the might just be glass. There seems to be a bit too much sparkle for these to be low quality diamonds and i doubt someone would have put high quality diamonds on this selut. The obvious answer to how to solve this question is simply to bring the selut to a jeweler for appraisal. There is no way t tell from your photographs what these actually are. If this were mine, aside from cleaning the blade i would polish up the silver on that selut. Silver is not meant to appear tarnished on a keris. Also, your wood looks a bit thirsty. I think this keris will clean up nicely. And even if the selut is a bit flashy for the this otherwise humble keris i think i would keep it rather than replace it.

9th February 2022, 04:29 PM	#5
milandro Member Join Date: Jan 2022 Location: Netherlands Posts: 475	I have asked a friend with one of these machines to test diamonds and no it isn’t a diamond, several people in the shop agreed they may have been zirconia. I have been getting to clean this but not all the tarnish came off and to use a polishing wheel would be really too much. The dress was cleaned and then oiled even when I took the pictures and has been oiled more with scented oil. Having said this, I’ve sent the wilah to be washed with warangan at a local expert and he will return it in a few days. I am curios to see what the pamor will look like. It was definitely present but discerning it from the tarnish was not easy. I will show it when it arrives. Yes, I am aware of this being a simple keris but they are very rare in the Netherlands at least, while there are tons of Javanese kerisses the Palembang are fare and very few apart. So, I am happy with this example and who knows, maybe one day I will get some more. The Hilt remains a “ problem”, I understand it is a correct hilt and that the ‘ damage” is in fact very common in these hilts, nevertheless my ambition is to try to improve on the looks with an hilt less plain than this. I’d be grateful if someone would come up with some suggestions for alternative hilts (so, not more of the same).