Strange blade on italian(?) old sword / B V mark

francantolin · 22nd June 2020, 12:24 PM

Hello dear members,

I wanted to ask you some questions to identifiy this strange sword:

I think it's a real old sword,the hilt has an italian storta shape but the blade is really strange: large and short and is really flat.

Is it an italian item ( medieval ? how old ?? )

Could it be an executioneer's sword ?

Has the blade been shortened ? Or a later change ??

Does someone know the symbol-marks and the B V

I'll post later other pictures of the blade

Kind regards

francantolin · 22nd June 2020, 01:30 PM

B V or P V mark for the thin blade...

looks a little like a ''langue de boeuf'' blade but hasn't the v shape

cut/ shortened blade ?

Kind regards

M ELEY · 22nd June 2020, 07:33 PM

Very nice item!! No expert, but the hilt style, pommel and quillons nearly exactly match those found on Italian falchions from the 17th c. It might be a cut-down blade, but you are right that executioner's types had rounded tips, so...

Yvain · 22nd June 2020, 09:14 PM

Maybe a cut down version of this type of blade. (Italian, late XVth - early XVIth century. The grip is a replacement, and the fittings may or may not be original.)

How is the cross section at the tip ? Is there a regular distal taper ?

Victrix · 22nd June 2020, 10:03 PM

It looks like a typical Venetian storta grip, 16-17thC. The blade is slightly unusual shape but obviously for cutting rather than thrusting. I have seen a German felddegen/haudegen with a completely rounded tip so not that strange. I have also seen a Styrian dussack with very similar metal condition and markings (eye lash, etc) which was end 16thC. It seems there’s a little space on the ricasso on which to lay the index finger to improve the grip and balance, which would argue for a fighting sword.

francantolin · 23rd June 2020, 08:01 AM

Hello,

Really thank you all for your precious comments !!!

I put some other pictures,

for the cross section ( I don't know if I have understood everything , my english is not that good !

),
it is not a diamond section, it's almost flat but a little larger in the center

looks like a large ham slicer - carpaccio knife blade

An old soldier's carpaccio maker sword ?

For the little space on the ricasso,
they used it like like that ? I saw this little space on old swords and wondered why they were made like that ( Thank's !!)

I forgot to mention the size: 70cm long for 850 grams
It seems not bad balanced, ''fits'' good in the hand
so maybe not shorted too much...

22nd June 2020, 12:24 PM	#1
francantolin Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 905	Strange blade on italian(?) old sword / B V mark Hello dear members, I wanted to ask you some questions to identifiy this strange sword: I think it's a real old sword,the hilt has an italian storta shape but the blade is really strange: large and short and is really flat. Is it an italian item ( medieval ? how old ?? ) Could it be an executioneer's sword ? Has the blade been shortened ? Or a later change ?? Does someone know the symbol-marks and the B V I'll post later other pictures of the blade Kind regards Attached Images

22nd June 2020, 01:30 PM	#2
francantolin Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 905	B V or P V mark for the thin blade... looks a little like a ''langue de boeuf'' blade but hasn't the v shape cut/ shortened blade ? Kind regards Attached Images

22nd June 2020, 09:14 PM	#4
Yvain Member Join Date: May 2017 Location: France Posts: 179	Maybe a cut down version of this type of blade. (Italian, late XVth - early XVIth century. The grip is a replacement, and the fittings may or may not be original.) How is the cross section at the tip ? Is there a regular distal taper ? Attached Images

23rd June 2020, 08:01 AM	#6
francantolin Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 905	Hello, Really thank you all for your precious comments !!! I put some other pictures, for the cross section ( I don't know if I have understood everything , my english is not that good ! ), it is not a diamond section, it's almost flat but a little larger in the center looks like a large ham slicer - carpaccio knife blade An old soldier's carpaccio maker sword ? For the little space on the ricasso, they used it like like that ? I saw this little space on old swords and wondered why they were made like that ( Thank's !!) I forgot to mention the size: 70cm long for 850 grams It seems not bad balanced, ''fits'' good in the hand so maybe not shorted too much... Attached Images

22nd June 2020, 07:33 PM	#3
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,141	Very nice item!! No expert, but the hilt style, pommel and quillons nearly exactly match those found on Italian falchions from the 17th c. It might be a cut-down blade, but you are right that executioner's types had rounded tips, so...

22nd June 2020, 10:03 PM	#5
Victrix Member Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Sweden Posts: 755	It looks like a typical Venetian storta grip, 16-17thC. The blade is slightly unusual shape but obviously for cutting rather than thrusting. I have seen a German felddegen/haudegen with a completely rounded tip so not that strange. I have also seen a Styrian dussack with very similar metal condition and markings (eye lash, etc) which was end 16thC. It seems there’s a little space on the ricasso on which to lay the index finger to improve the grip and balance, which would argue for a fighting sword.