New/Modern Uzbek Pchak

ALEX · 10th February 2020, 10:54 AM

Here is newly made Uzbek knife (pchak). I suspect some parts being shipped from other regions, like walrus handle is most certainly from Russia, the blade could also be from elsewhere (India?), the ladder mechanical pattern is quite nice, it is forged and heat-treated but of mass-production quality and purely decorative, the scabbard is well made and signed on the back. Can someone translate it?

mahratt · 10th February 2020, 11:04 AM

Walrus bone was a material that was always (in the 18th and 19th centuries) brought to Central Asia from Russia. This is normal. But the shape of the blade does not quite correspond to the traditional shape of pchaks ...

ALEX · 10th February 2020, 11:31 AM

Mahratt, an excellent observation. You're right. I guess this is just a (hunting?) knife with the Uzbek-styled scabbard; they fit well but could be a mismatch too.
Have you seen similar? The scabbard is Uzbek but I am curious if the knife is made in Russia, Uzbekistan, or elsewhere?

mahratt · 10th February 2020, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALEX

Mahratt, an excellent observation. You're right. I guess this is just a (hunting?) knife with the Uzbek-styled scabbard; they fit well but could be a mismatch too.
Have you seen similar? The scabbard is Uzbek but I am curious if the knife is made in Russia, Uzbekistan, or elsewhere?

I think the knife is made in Uzbekistan. And you're right, I think this is a hunting knife, in the Uzbek style. In my opinion, the blade is made in India. Recently, my friend was in Uzbekistan and took pictures of knives on the market for me. There were a lot of blades of Damascus steel, in my opinion, made in India.

ALEX · 10th February 2020, 12:02 PM

Mahratt, Thanks! This crossed my mind also. Mechanically, the blade does look Indian, although tiger-eye/raindrop are more common Indian patterns, and this one is more 'ladder-oriented'. The shape of the blade is also not typical Indian, and it is also heat-treated, hardened and sharp, whereas most modern Indian made blades are soft and dull. I thought it was made elsewhere as it does not look Uzbek blade as well as pattern.

Tim Simmons · 10th February 2020, 06:01 PM

I have something similar with an 8 inch blade. I use it when on camping breaks and cooking on an open fire. I bought it from a sales base in the UK but they are hand made in Pakistan I believe. Although present day production, I would consider them worthy of discussion as ethnographic knives even if some of the styles are rather fanciful others are not. They are good quality and hand made. Mine gets good use preparing fire wood beside food prep. The European and USA custom knife makers seem to hold them in some distain. I do not know why as they are good and affordable compared to the prices wanted by custom knife makers.

mariusgmioc · 10th February 2020, 06:02 PM

Double posting...

mariusgmioc · 10th February 2020, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALEX

Mahratt, Thanks! This crossed my mind also. Mechanically, the blade does look Indian, although tiger-eye/raindrop are more common Indian patterns, and this one is more 'ladder-oriented'. The shape of the blade is also not typical Indian, and it is also heat-treated, hardened and sharp, whereas most modern Indian made blades are soft and dull. I thought it was made elsewhere as it does not look Uzbek blade as well as pattern.

Indian workshops make knife blades of any imaginable form these days. So do some workshops in Pakistan.

This blade is of modern, bowie shape and does not match any ethnographic blade I know (the closest match would be some old English Sheffield Bowie knives from around 1900). And the fact that it was hand made and has an ethnographically inspired scabbard does not make it an ethnographic knife. It is a nice and collectible modern hunting knife, but definitely not an ethnographic Uzbek pichak!

Just Google for images "antique Sheffield bowie knife" and you'll find many with very similar blade.

In response to Tim's message, I can say that I had quite a few knives with similar blades but the mechanical qualities of the blades were pathetically poor... incomparably worse than my stainless steel Chinese kitchen knives...

Ren Ren · 10th February 2020, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mahratt

I think the knife is made in Uzbekistan. And you're right, I think this is a hunting knife, in the Uzbek style. In my opinion, the blade is made in India. Recently, my friend was in Uzbekistan and took pictures of knives on the market for me. There were a lot of blades of Damascus steel, in my opinion, made in India.

I completely agree with mahratt.

ariel · 10th February 2020, 08:11 PM

E-bay is full of them: finished one, with or without scabbards, or just bare lades. Asking price from $7.99 to $10.99, or $92 for eight of them. Most are made in Pakistan, some are sold from the US, but the source of the blades is not mentioned.
Since I never owned one, I cannot comment on their quality. But older sources specifically mention very soft steel of the original p'chaks: sharpening them was a piece of cake, in the field any stone would do the job, at home or in chaj-khane ( Tea house) it was done against the bottom of piala ( ceramic teacup).

Rick · 10th February 2020, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALEX

Mahratt, an excellent observation. You're right. I guess this is just a (hunting?) knife with the Uzbek-styled scabbard; they fit well but could be a mismatch too.
Have you seen similar? The scabbard is Uzbek but I am curious if the knife is made in Russia, Uzbekistan, or elsewhere?

I doubt it's a mismatch. I think I see abalone inlay on the bolster as well as the scabbard.

Tim Simmons · 10th February 2020, 06:07 PM

This is thought of as an ethnographic knife.

http://vikingsword.com/vb/showthread...nepalese+bowie

OsobistGB · 10th February 2020, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mahratt

Walrus bone was a material that was always (in the 18th and 19th centuries) brought to Central Asia from Russia. This is normal. But the shape of the blade does not quite correspond to the traditional shape of pchaks ...

I agree 100% with mahratt!!!
Nothing to do with Uzbekistan or Tajikistan

OsobistGB · 10th February 2020, 11:50 PM

These are from this region

ariel · 11th February 2020, 12:12 AM

Yes, these are traditional locally-made blades.

However, I would not discard Alex’s hunting knife. It is emphatically not a fake : the blade is far too obvious to suspect bad intentions of the master. He just made a hunting/utility knife using traditional decorations and the best looking blade he could find. Whether its quality in on par with the decor can be ascertained only with usage. Hope it is good.

ALEX · 11th February 2020, 10:37 AM

I agree, this knife was made to look in Uzbek style. The only blade is not of Uzbek form, and this only feature makes it non-ethnographic.

Marius, would you agree if the blade be of proper pchak form it'd be ethnographic knife?

Here's another blade from the same source but in distinctively Uzbek pchak shape, the rest is identical. Granted, this blade would make a better match with the scabbard, making it a modern ethnographic pchak. With the present knife, its a hybrid of hunting blade in pchak fittings.

Tim, thanks for posting your knife. similar pattern and form indeed.

10th February 2020, 10:54 AM	#1
ALEX Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 936	New/Modern Uzbek Pchak Here is newly made Uzbek knife (pchak). I suspect some parts being shipped from other regions, like walrus handle is most certainly from Russia, the blade could also be from elsewhere (India?), the ladder mechanical pattern is quite nice, it is forged and heat-treated but of mass-production quality and purely decorative, the scabbard is well made and signed on the back. Can someone translate it? Attached Images

10th February 2020, 06:01 PM	#6
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,812	something similar I have something similar with an 8 inch blade. I use it when on camping breaks and cooking on an open fire. I bought it from a sales base in the UK but they are hand made in Pakistan I believe. Although present day production, I would consider them worthy of discussion as ethnographic knives even if some of the styles are rather fanciful others are not. They are good quality and hand made. Mine gets good use preparing fire wood beside food prep. The European and USA custom knife makers seem to hold them in some distain. I do not know why as they are good and affordable compared to the prices wanted by custom knife makers. Attached Images Last edited by Tim Simmons; 10th February 2020 at 06:11 PM.

10th February 2020, 06:02 PM	#7
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,906	Double posting... Last edited by mariusgmioc; 10th February 2020 at 06:35 PM.

10th February 2020, 08:11 PM	#10
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	E-bay is full of them: finished one, with or without scabbards, or just bare lades. Asking price from $7.99 to $10.99, or $92 for eight of them. Most are made in Pakistan, some are sold from the US, but the source of the blades is not mentioned. Since I never owned one, I cannot comment on their quality. But older sources specifically mention very soft steel of the original p'chaks: sharpening them was a piece of cake, in the field any stone would do the job, at home or in chaj-khane ( Tea house) it was done against the bottom of piala ( ceramic teacup). Attached Images

10th February 2020, 11:50 PM	#14
OsobistGB Member Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 94	These are from this region Attached Images

10th February 2020, 11:04 AM	#2
mahratt Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Russia Posts: 1,042	Walrus bone was a material that was always (in the 18th and 19th centuries) brought to Central Asia from Russia. This is normal. But the shape of the blade does not quite correspond to the traditional shape of pchaks ...

10th February 2020, 11:31 AM	#3
ALEX Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 936	Mahratt, an excellent observation. You're right. I guess this is just a (hunting?) knife with the Uzbek-styled scabbard; they fit well but could be a mismatch too. Have you seen similar? The scabbard is Uzbek but I am curious if the knife is made in Russia, Uzbekistan, or elsewhere?

10th February 2020, 12:02 PM	#5
ALEX Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 936	Mahratt, Thanks! This crossed my mind also. Mechanically, the blade does look Indian, although tiger-eye/raindrop are more common Indian patterns, and this one is more 'ladder-oriented'. The shape of the blade is also not typical Indian, and it is also heat-treated, hardened and sharp, whereas most modern Indian made blades are soft and dull. I thought it was made elsewhere as it does not look Uzbek blade as well as pattern.

10th February 2020, 06:07 PM	#12
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,812	This is thought of as an ethnographic knife. http://vikingsword.com/vb/showthread...nepalese+bowie

11th February 2020, 12:12 AM	#15
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Yes, these are traditional locally-made blades. However, I would not discard Alex’s hunting knife. It is emphatically not a fake : the blade is far too obvious to suspect bad intentions of the master. He just made a hunting/utility knife using traditional decorations and the best looking blade he could find. Whether its quality in on par with the decor can be ascertained only with usage. Hope it is good.

11th February 2020, 10:37 AM	#16
ALEX Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 936	I agree, this knife was made to look in Uzbek style. The only blade is not of Uzbek form, and this only feature makes it non-ethnographic. Marius, would you agree if the blade be of proper pchak form it'd be ethnographic knife? Here's another blade from the same source but in distinctively Uzbek pchak shape, the rest is identical. Granted, this blade would make a better match with the scabbard, making it a modern ethnographic pchak. With the present knife, its a hybrid of hunting blade in pchak fittings. Tim, thanks for posting your knife. similar pattern and form indeed. Attached Images