Any ideas on the origin?

kino · 26th May 2006, 04:00 AM

Any forum members seen this type of hilt before? Does the carving on the
scabbard give any clues?

nechesh · 26th May 2006, 04:14 AM

Kino, aren't you going to show us the blade?

zelbone · 26th May 2006, 04:28 AM

yes and yes

Ian · 26th May 2006, 05:10 AM

Kino:

We need to see this sword out of the sheath.

The scabbard looks Visayan to me, similar to the style of scabbard found on the deity hilted swords from Panay -- an older style with the wooden block suspension system (I believe Zel has said this style dates to pre-1900). The carving on the scabbard, with its repeated four leaf flower design, is similar to that seen on scabbards of knives and swords coming from the Eastern Visayas (Samar, Leyte) but I'm not sure if it is a common motif in the Western Visayas. The carved hilt is a form that I have not seen previously (appears to be a flower form, or perhaps a variant of naga). The octagonal ferrule and handle are consistent with a Panay/Negros (Western Visayas) origin. The irregularly shaped disk guard (is it horn or wood?) also suggests Western Visayas.

When we see the blade I would expect it to have the usual chisel-ground edge seen on most Visayan swords and knives.

Ian.

zelbone · 26th May 2006, 06:07 AM

Yes, Kino, you do see similar scabbards in that photo

No need to see your blade.

themorningstar · 26th May 2006, 07:02 AM

and.... survey says.... "it's a sundang!!!"

Andrew · 26th May 2006, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zelbone

yes and yes

Why the cryptic responses, Zel? If you've got information you don't wish to share at this time, why post at all?

kino · 26th May 2006, 05:00 AM

I will post a photo of the blade on Friday, that is when I will take delivery.

Zel, I see similar scabbard in the group photo of your cutting test blades.

kino · 26th May 2006, 11:47 PM

Ian, thanks for the information. It does have that flower/naga carving on the hilt. You were correct on the blade, it's chisel ground. The guard is Carabao horn.

VVV, it is on the small side. The overall length is 22.5 in., blade is 16.5 in. Very similar scabbards.

The 3rd photo is of a Naga hilt on a Bangkung, just for comparison.

zelbone · 27th May 2006, 12:32 AM

LOLZ.....nice

!!!

I suspected a sanduko but instead we have a talibong with a pueo bulaklak.

btw...the hanger block does not determine age, but rather point of origin.

Andrew · 27th May 2006, 04:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zelbone

LOLZ.....nice

!!!

I suspected a sanduko but instead we have a talibong with a pueo bulaklak.

btw...the hanger block does not determine age, but rather point of origin.

Thank you, Zel. Any thoughts on origin?

26th May 2006, 04:00 AM	#1
kino Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,016	Any ideas on the origin? Any forum members seen this type of hilt before? Does the carving on the scabbard give any clues? Attached Images

26th May 2006, 11:47 PM	#9
kino Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,016	Zel, close your eyes, I'm posting photos of the blade Ian, thanks for the information. It does have that flower/naga carving on the hilt. You were correct on the blade, it's chisel ground. The guard is Carabao horn. VVV, it is on the small side. The overall length is 22.5 in., blade is 16.5 in. Very similar scabbards. The 3rd photo is of a Naga hilt on a Bangkung, just for comparison. Attached Images

27th May 2006, 12:32 AM	#10
zelbone Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: VISAYAS and MINDANAO Posts: 169	Eyes wide shut! LOLZ.....nice !!! I suspected a sanduko but instead we have a talibong with a pueo bulaklak. btw...the hanger block does not determine age, but rather point of origin.

26th May 2006, 04:14 AM	#2
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Kino, aren't you going to show us the blade?

26th May 2006, 04:28 AM	#3
zelbone Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: VISAYAS and MINDANAO Posts: 169	yes and yes

26th May 2006, 05:10 AM	#4
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,336	Kino: We need to see this sword out of the sheath. The scabbard looks Visayan to me, similar to the style of scabbard found on the deity hilted swords from Panay -- an older style with the wooden block suspension system (I believe Zel has said this style dates to pre-1900). The carving on the scabbard, with its repeated four leaf flower design, is similar to that seen on scabbards of knives and swords coming from the Eastern Visayas (Samar, Leyte) but I'm not sure if it is a common motif in the Western Visayas. The carved hilt is a form that I have not seen previously (appears to be a flower form, or perhaps a variant of naga). The octagonal ferrule and handle are consistent with a Panay/Negros (Western Visayas) origin. The irregularly shaped disk guard (is it horn or wood?) also suggests Western Visayas. When we see the blade I would expect it to have the usual chisel-ground edge seen on most Visayan swords and knives. Ian.

26th May 2006, 06:07 AM	#5
zelbone Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: VISAYAS and MINDANAO Posts: 169	Yes, Kino, you do see similar scabbards in that photo No need to see your blade.

26th May 2006, 07:02 AM	#6
themorningstar Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 55	and.... survey says.... "it's a sundang!!!"

26th May 2006, 05:00 AM	#8
kino Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,016	I will post a photo of the blade on Friday, that is when I will take delivery. Zel, I see similar scabbard in the group photo of your cutting test blades.