Former Bayonet

[RobT]

Hi All,

Because of the reptile skin and basket weave on the hilt and sheath, I assumed the civilian mounts were made in Africa. Given the the design of the sheath throat, I assumed that the piece came from a Spanish colony. Internet research revealed that the blade was from a German model 1871 bayonet made by W. R. Kirschbaum in Solingen. The internet also showed that the stamp on the other side of the blade (an "RA" inside a circle) meant that the blade was property of the Argentinean military. This appears to make the possibility of any African involvement unlikely. I have read that the Gauchos commonly carried a long knife/short sword on their saddles. Could this be an example? If it is, the condition of the sheath and the hilt is miraculous. The blade is also in superb condition.

Sincerely,
RobT

[Fernando K]

Hello

This is a "facon" (although it does not have "hawk") built from a bayonet blade. The RA by Argentine Republic. I can not see the work of the handle and the sheath, but I think it has a job of "touch" and applications of an iguana leather or live.

Affectionately. Fernando K

[RobT]

Fernando K,

Thanks for the information. Based on the statements in the article by Abel Domenech (http://www.vikingsword.com/ethsword/facon/criollo.html), I was wondering if this may actually be a Caronero. The blade on my knife measures 18-3/8" long. The two things that really puzzle me are the hilt and sheath coverings and their intact condition. I have never seen pictures of any facon with reptile skin and basket weaving on the hilt and sheath. Nor have I ever seen any pictures of a facon with what appears to be some type of lanyard loop on the hilt. Does the presence of these items point to a specific area of origin? It appears to me that the coverings were certainly made either for or by a person who held the knife in great personal esteem and used it as part of his daily life. Since, according to the Domenech article, the gauchos pretty much disappeared by 1880-1890, the condition of the 100+ hilt and sheath are remarkable.

Sincerely,
RobT

[Fernando K]

Hello

The voice "caronero" is applied when a weapon (FACON OR DAGGER) is carried in the saddle of the horse, due to its size. In this case, its blade measures 46 centimeters, and this is the case, a bit big to be worn at the waist, back. In this case, because it is an adaptation of few possibilities, it lacks the "GAVILAN" (defense element). The fact that the handle is attached to a tape to keep it in the hand and the leather work of the handle and sleeve can not be attributed to a particular area, which may have been made in any part of the republic. The denomination of GAUCHO disappeared and was replaced by "PAISANO" and the character maintained the same characteristics and the same ways of life, the horse, although diminished by modernity. The attribution corresponds to the time of adoption of this bayonet, much later

Affectionately, Fernando K

[Fernando K]

Hello

This is the bayonet for the Remington Argentine Model 1879 rifle, caliber 11.15 by 58 Rmm. The length of the blade is 471 mm. These bayonets were manufactured before 1883, the year in which they merged with Weyersberg. Anyway, I estimate that the facon is manufactured in the first half of the 20th century

Affectionately, fernando K

[Tim Simmons]

Very nice handle and scabbard giving class to a boring old bayonet.

[Chris Evans]

Rob,

Was nice of Mr Domenech to respond - He is a real gentleman and a scholar!

I forgot to ask in my earlier posts; Is there any evidence of the edge having been sharpened more than once or at all?

Cheers
Chris

[RobT]

Hi Chris,

From the striations on the edge, it would appear that the blade has been sharpened with a stone.

Sincerely,
RobT

[Chris Evans]

Originally Posted by RobT

Hi Chris,

From the striations on the edge, it would appear that the blade has been sharpened with a stone.

Sincerely,
RobT

Thanks for that reply. It would seem that it was indeed intended for some kind of use.

Cheers
Chris

[Chris Evans]

Rob,

As Fernando said, it is a "facon caronero". The absence of a hand guard allowed it be more easily pinned under the saddle.

The designation "facon"applies to large fixed blade knives in general and "the "carona" is the gaucho version of a saddle.

Modern writers have narrowed down the definition of what a facon is, but as far as popular usage is concerned, the above definition remains in use.

These large knives, often made from swords, were primarily used to bring down wild cattle from horseback on the flat-lands known as Pampas. And if the situation required it, they were also be used as weapons.

For the sake of completeness, the semi nomadic gauchos depended for sustenance on the wild cattle and horses found in large numbers on the Pampas. This lifestyle largely disappeared by around 1850 with the settling and commercialization of the flat-lands.

Whilst the provenance of your facon is undoubtedly linked to the River Plate regions, I am a tad suspicious by the excellent state of the blade and the elaborate plaited sheath which I have not seen on 19th century specimens. I say this because there are folks in that part of the world who cut down old bayonets and remount them as facons, selling them as genuine antiques at an elevated price that the bayonet would not have fetched.

Cheers
Chris

[Fernando K]

Hello

For clarifications

First: the "CARONEROS FACONES" were carried in the chair, with the handle outside, which allowed to be easily taken, assembled or disassembled. This facon lacks the GAVILAN (protector of the hand) because it is of elementary manufacture.

Second: the "CARONA" is not the saddle, but a part of it. It is like a folder or carpet, usually with a sole, which prevents the sweat of the horse from passing to the chair and for padding.

Third: The facon was not used to knock down cattle cimarron, for that the "DESJARRETADORA" was used. The main use of the facon is for the attack. To slaughter, hunt and slaughter cattle, a common knife was used

Sorry for the translator

Affectionately. Fernando K

[Chris Evans]

Hi,

A picture is worth a thousand words.

Fernando is quite right that the word "carona" ought to be translated more accurately as saddle cloth, but I still think that my original translation was near enough.

From Abel Domenech's "Del Facon Al Bowie" pg 112-113:

Writing about the facon:

.....aunquee el gaucho tambien la haya utilizado eventualmente para otros menesteres: terminar of afenar una rez, cazar o cuerear...

Loose translation: ...although the gaucho used it also for finishing off or carve up a beast (cattle), to hunt or to flay....

Edit: I think that we can argue about whether these facons were primarily wepaons or tools to hunt with, but I opt for the later simply because gauchos ate more often than fought <lol>. As well their roving lifestyle prevented them from carrying around an arsenal of various knives, each suited for specific task, so they had to do it all with one or perhaps two.

Cheers
Chris

[Fernando K]

Hello

We are talking about Facon caronero, and he was the one who behaved in the "errand" or "lomillo", a saddle typical of the gaucho horsemanship. The gaucho, in addition, had a common knife in his body, with which he could eat, fish or hunt a cow. Of course, if he was the only one I had, I should go to him. The FACON CARONER0 was essentially a fighting weapon, and to hunt animals the gaucho had other weapons, such as the "boleadoras" and the "lasso"

Sorry for the translator

Fernando K

[Fernando K]

Hello

As Domemech himself says (in the epigraph of his illustration)

...... its use is limited to the use by criminals or militias, mostly

An illustration is worth a thousand words, but you also have to see what the words say ...

Fernando K