Poincon Identification?

Pukka Bundook · 16th February 2018, 03:55 PM

Dear friends,
attached is a photo of a poincon found on a pair of 18th C Madrid gun barrels.

I have no information on Luis Santos, other than he was father to Juan Santos. Any further information would be greatly appreciated.

Kind regards,

Richard.

fernando · 16th February 2018, 04:31 PM

Luis Santos. A student in Madrid of Juan Belén, Santos probably worked during a good part of the final quarter of the seventeenth century. Although his arms were superior, he was unfortunate in being the least outstanding of Belén's disciples. He taught his son, Juan Santos, and died in Madrid on 27 April 1721.
( From a History of SPANISH FIREARMS by James D. Lavin ).
BTW Richard, poinçon is more Frenchy; Spanish is punzon

.

fernando · 16th February 2018, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

... Although his arms were superior, he was unfortunate in being the least outstanding of Belén's disciples...

The other two were Alonso Martinez and Nicolás Bis (German) the superior one, who invented the making of barrels with horse shoes steel.
(Compendio Historico de los Arcabuceros de Madrid, by Isidro Solér)

Fernando K · 16th February 2018, 07:28 PM

Hello

Ramiro Larrañaga, in "Historical synthesis of the Basque Armeria" n on page 267:

SANTOS, Luis. Arcabucero de Madrid, conde3 died on 4/27/1721. Contramarca of a rampant lion. He was the father of Juan Santos

Affectionately. Fernando K

PD Larañaga gives as a source to LAVIN, "History of Spanish Makers"

Fernando K · 16th February 2018, 07:58 PM

Hello

What amazes me is that Larrañaga (opus citatus), in the same page

SANTOS, Juan Arcabucero de Madrid, son of Luis Santos 1721-1745. Contramarca: a lion on the hind legs with a fleur-de-lis on the right front claw.

Apparently, the punch shows a lion with something in its right claw .....

Larrañaga gives as a source to Isidro Soler "Arcabuceros de Madrid"

Affectionately Fernando K

Pukka Bundook · 17th February 2018, 02:13 AM

Thank you for your replies and the information Gentlemen.

Fernando my friend,
I will be sure to remember Punzon in future.

Fernando K,

It is very kind of you to add further information.
I am a little puzzled about your last two lines. Very sorry but I am a bit thick at times!

Please may I ask you to clarify your meaning here?

"
Apparently, the punch shows a lion with something in its right claw .....

Larrañaga gives as a source to Isidro Soler "Arcabuceros de Madrid"

Do I take it that as the lion in the above photo has something different in it's paw, that it in some way differs from what we should expect?

Thank you for your time, my friend.

Richard.

16th February 2018, 03:55 PM	#1
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	Poincon Identification? Dear friends, attached is a photo of a poincon found on a pair of 18th C Madrid gun barrels. I have no information on Luis Santos, other than he was father to Juan Santos. Any further information would be greatly appreciated. Kind regards, Richard. Attached Images

16th February 2018, 04:31 PM	#2
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Luis Santos. A student in Madrid of Juan Belén, Santos probably worked during a good part of the final quarter of the seventeenth century. Although his arms were superior, he was unfortunate in being the least outstanding of Belén's disciples. He taught his son, Juan Santos, and died in Madrid on 27 April 1721. ( From a History of SPANISH FIREARMS by James D. Lavin ). BTW Richard, poinçon is more Frenchy; Spanish is punzon .

16th February 2018, 07:28 PM	#4
Fernando K Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 670	Hello Ramiro Larrañaga, in "Historical synthesis of the Basque Armeria" n on page 267: SANTOS, Luis. Arcabucero de Madrid, conde3 died on 4/27/1721. Contramarca of a rampant lion. He was the father of Juan Santos Affectionately. Fernando K PD Larañaga gives as a source to LAVIN, "History of Spanish Makers"

16th February 2018, 07:58 PM	#5
Fernando K Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 670	Hello What amazes me is that Larrañaga (opus citatus), in the same page SANTOS, Juan Arcabucero de Madrid, son of Luis Santos 1721-1745. Contramarca: a lion on the hind legs with a fleur-de-lis on the right front claw. Apparently, the punch shows a lion with something in its right claw ..... Larrañaga gives as a source to Isidro Soler "Arcabuceros de Madrid" Affectionately Fernando K

17th February 2018, 02:13 AM	#6
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	Thank you for your replies and the information Gentlemen. Fernando my friend, I will be sure to remember Punzon in future. Fernando K, It is very kind of you to add further information. I am a little puzzled about your last two lines. Very sorry but I am a bit thick at times! Please may I ask you to clarify your meaning here? " Apparently, the punch shows a lion with something in its right claw ..... Larrañaga gives as a source to Isidro Soler "Arcabuceros de Madrid" Do I take it that as the lion in the above photo has something different in it's paw, that it in some way differs from what we should expect? Thank you for your time, my friend. Richard.