Katar (& Splitter)

taube · 6th October 2015, 03:16 PM

Gents,

here is some souvneirs that I brought home recently.
The Katar should be okay.
The Splitter is interesting but probably does not fit this forum.

Cheers,
taube.

RobertGuy · 17th October 2015, 05:59 PM

Taube
Interested in your Katar as I think I have its twin. Mine has a new made scabbard but I am particularly interested in the small crescent like marks at the base of the blades. I was told these were armoury stamps but they look more like simple decoration to me. Do these help date these blades? I know dating is very difficult and examples are still being turned out and then convincingly, if fraudulently, aged.
I include measurements for my example.
Weight: 10.2oz (0.29kg)
Length overall: 18'' (46cm) Blade: 10.5'' (27cm)
Width of grip: 2.53'' (64.4mm)
Profile taper: 2.37'' (60.3mm) at ricasso, 1.08'' (27.4mm) at mid blade, 0.78'' (19.9mm) two inches from tip.
Distal taper 0.25'' (6.5.mm) at ricasso, 0.19'' (4.8mm) at mid blade,. 0.21'' (5.3mm) 2 inches from tip.
Any thoughts and opinions from forum members gratefully received.

taube · 23rd October 2015, 03:14 PM

Hi Robert,

quite similar indeed.
Not being an expert at all, I thought of mine being an everyday use, low budget example (hopefully).
Would be pleased to hear some long term collector´s opinion.

Cheers,
taube.

Emanuel · 23rd October 2015, 04:08 PM

Hi Taube, Robert,

The decoration at the base of your jamadhar are stylized lotus buds. They are important in Hindu symbolism, associated with creation and the gods Vishnu and Brahma IIRC.

The word Jamdhar can be interpreted as a distortion of "Yamadaushtra", derived from "Yama" (Lord of death) + "Daushtra" (tooth in Sanskrit). So "Death-Tooth". Forum member Bhushan pointed this out some time ago, and I believe there is also a reference to it in Egerton.

The combination of a death iconography with a creation one in interesting.

This would place the dagger within the Hindu sphere, maybe not the Mughal. It brings up a very interesting thought about the Mughal's adoption of these daggers. Very hard to date these daggers as they were produced and used all over India well into the late 19th century.

Emanuel

Emanuel · 23rd October 2015, 04:17 PM

Taube, looking at your scabbard I wonder if yours is a Nepali piece. The scabbard construction is very similar to that seen on khukri.

taube · 26th October 2015, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emanuel

Taube, looking at your scabbard I wonder if yours is a Nepali piece. The scabbard construction is very similar to that seen on khukri.

Thanks, Emanuel.
Very interesting aspects you are hinting at.
I just liked the piece as an object but you are really filling it with life.
My Katar was purchaseded in Jaisalmer, Rjasthan.
Of course, you can never be sure about seller´s appraisals.
He stated his items are from the surrounding area.

Best,
taube.

6th October 2015, 03:16 PM	#1
taube Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 45	Katar (& Splitter) Gents, here is some souvneirs that I brought home recently. The Katar should be okay. The Splitter is interesting but probably does not fit this forum. Cheers, taube. Attached Images

17th October 2015, 05:59 PM	#2
RobertGuy Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 135	Snap Taube Interested in your Katar as I think I have its twin. Mine has a new made scabbard but I am particularly interested in the small crescent like marks at the base of the blades. I was told these were armoury stamps but they look more like simple decoration to me. Do these help date these blades? I know dating is very difficult and examples are still being turned out and then convincingly, if fraudulently, aged. I include measurements for my example. Weight: 10.2oz (0.29kg) Length overall: 18'' (46cm) Blade: 10.5'' (27cm) Width of grip: 2.53'' (64.4mm) Profile taper: 2.37'' (60.3mm) at ricasso, 1.08'' (27.4mm) at mid blade, 0.78'' (19.9mm) two inches from tip. Distal taper 0.25'' (6.5.mm) at ricasso, 0.19'' (4.8mm) at mid blade,. 0.21'' (5.3mm) 2 inches from tip. Any thoughts and opinions from forum members gratefully received. Attached Images

23rd October 2015, 03:14 PM	#3
taube Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 45	Hi Robert, quite similar indeed. Not being an expert at all, I thought of mine being an everyday use, low budget example (hopefully). Would be pleased to hear some long term collector´s opinion. Cheers, taube.

23rd October 2015, 04:08 PM	#4
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	Hi Taube, Robert, The decoration at the base of your jamadhar are stylized lotus buds. They are important in Hindu symbolism, associated with creation and the gods Vishnu and Brahma IIRC. The word Jamdhar can be interpreted as a distortion of "Yamadaushtra", derived from "Yama" (Lord of death) + "Daushtra" (tooth in Sanskrit). So "Death-Tooth". Forum member Bhushan pointed this out some time ago, and I believe there is also a reference to it in Egerton. The combination of a death iconography with a creation one in interesting. This would place the dagger within the Hindu sphere, maybe not the Mughal. It brings up a very interesting thought about the Mughal's adoption of these daggers. Very hard to date these daggers as they were produced and used all over India well into the late 19th century. Emanuel

23rd October 2015, 04:17 PM	#5
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	Taube, looking at your scabbard I wonder if yours is a Nepali piece. The scabbard construction is very similar to that seen on khukri.