Kris? Sundang? Something else?

DaveA · 26th September 2014, 11:02 PM

Hello All,

Here is the first of a couple of pieces I recently picked up. I seem to be attracted to blurry pictures and/or odd descriptions -- taking a chance. This one looked familiar but I have not seen a pommel like this before.

Total length = 24" , blade 18 ¾"

Ganja: Intact, tight against blade, may or may not be separate (requires more cleaning), curved not straight.

Blade: Very sharp on both sides, slight diamond cross section extending all the way to the tip. Many scratches and old rust (now mostly cleaned off). As I begin to polish I see the faint lines of lamination but until I'm farther along with cleaning I will make no claims. Curves of blade are definitely forged, not cut

There are signs of two asang-asang on the blade but now missing.

The blade is very secure in the hilt. It looks to have been re-secured in the old interior wood of the hilt with a clear-ish gum like substance.

Pommel: Horse-hoof shape with octagonal shape, each face faced with decorative brass in floral pattern cut through. Pommel end itself is quite beautiful with an intricate pattern in brass, also octagonal in shape.

Hilt is two layers of braided wire, looking like copper to my eye, the inner layer braided tightly and completely covering the grip and the outer layer forming a ladder-like design. Very intricate.

Impressive and comfortable to hold. Very well balanced.

What do I have here?

Thank you in advance for your comments.

Best Regards,

Dave A.

Sajen · 26th September 2014, 11:35 PM

Hello Dave,

it is a better example of a WWII or later Moro kris, note that the handle is attached in the "wrong" direction, typical for later Moro kris. The ganja don't will be separate, again a sign for a later piece. The file work is also not the finest you can find, again a sign for a kris of this time frame. Nice that all mother of pearl inlays at the handle still in place. The blade could be laminated IMHO. Nice kris from this time.

Regards,
Detlef

Ian · 27th September 2014, 01:00 AM

Hi Dave:

Agree with Detlef -- second half of 20th C piece with nice horse hoof style hilt with intact MOP and a nice rattan/wire wrap. The hilt has been positioned backwards, as Detlef noted, although that is probably a mistake by someone who replaced the hilt after the piece was made. This one does not appear to have had baca baca previously.

Nice pick up. I saw it for sale too--you got a good deal!

Is there a scabbard with this one?

Ian.

DaveA · 27th September 2014, 01:14 AM

Good comments, thanks.

No scabbard unfortunately.

This hilt-on-backwards thing is going to really bother me someday. Not now, but sometime I will ask for advice on how to remount it.

The inner portion is indeed rattan now that I look again closely.

Having many eyes on an item is really an extraordinary power and benefit of this forum! Many thanks to everyone for years of education.

Regards,

Dave

Battara · 27th September 2014, 05:30 AM

I agree with Detlef and Ian. All I can add is this is from the Sulu region.

DaveA · 27th September 2014, 05:53 PM

i have an idea, but it belongs in a new thread...

26th September 2014, 11:02 PM	#1
DaveA Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Wisconsin, USA Posts: 413	Kris? Sundang? Something else? Hello All, Here is the first of a couple of pieces I recently picked up. I seem to be attracted to blurry pictures and/or odd descriptions -- taking a chance. This one looked familiar but I have not seen a pommel like this before. Total length = 24" , blade 18 ¾" Ganja: Intact, tight against blade, may or may not be separate (requires more cleaning), curved not straight. Blade: Very sharp on both sides, slight diamond cross section extending all the way to the tip. Many scratches and old rust (now mostly cleaned off). As I begin to polish I see the faint lines of lamination but until I'm farther along with cleaning I will make no claims. Curves of blade are definitely forged, not cut There are signs of two asang-asang on the blade but now missing. The blade is very secure in the hilt. It looks to have been re-secured in the old interior wood of the hilt with a clear-ish gum like substance. Pommel: Horse-hoof shape with octagonal shape, each face faced with decorative brass in floral pattern cut through. Pommel end itself is quite beautiful with an intricate pattern in brass, also octagonal in shape. Hilt is two layers of braided wire, looking like copper to my eye, the inner layer braided tightly and completely covering the grip and the outer layer forming a ladder-like design. Very intricate. Impressive and comfortable to hold. Very well balanced. What do I have here? Thank you in advance for your comments. Best Regards, Dave A. Attached Images

27th September 2014, 01:14 AM	#4
DaveA Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Wisconsin, USA Posts: 413	Thanks Good comments, thanks. No scabbard unfortunately. This hilt-on-backwards thing is going to really bother me someday. Not now, but sometime I will ask for advice on how to remount it. The inner portion is indeed rattan now that I look again closely. Having many eyes on an item is really an extraordinary power and benefit of this forum! Many thanks to everyone for years of education. Regards, Dave

27th September 2014, 05:53 PM	#6
DaveA Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Wisconsin, USA Posts: 413	Backwards hilt: Form follows function. i have an idea, but it belongs in a new thread...

26th September 2014, 11:35 PM	#2
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,786	Hello Dave, it is a better example of a WWII or later Moro kris, note that the handle is attached in the "wrong" direction, typical for later Moro kris. The ganja don't will be separate, again a sign for a later piece. The file work is also not the finest you can find, again a sign for a kris of this time frame. Nice that all mother of pearl inlays at the handle still in place. The blade could be laminated IMHO. Nice kris from this time. Regards, Detlef

27th September 2014, 01:00 AM	#3
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,203	Hi Dave: Agree with Detlef -- second half of 20th C piece with nice horse hoof style hilt with intact MOP and a nice rattan/wire wrap. The hilt has been positioned backwards, as Detlef noted, although that is probably a mistake by someone who replaced the hilt after the piece was made. This one does not appear to have had baca baca previously. Nice pick up. I saw it for sale too--you got a good deal! Is there a scabbard with this one? Ian.

27th September 2014, 05:30 AM	#5
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,226	I agree with Detlef and Ian. All I can add is this is from the Sulu region.