Help with Helmet Identification

CharlesS · 10th October 2013, 05:49 PM

Hope I can get some help with the proper identification of the cultural origin of this unique helmet.

It has some features that seem Islamic....spiked(if subdued) top, nose guard, and Islamic style chain mail...but some unique features as well. It is a two piece dome with the bottom portion riveted to the top at the rib, which hides the rivets. This recreates a very deep dome.

The helmet was found complete, but in pretty rough shape with a outer layer of active rust with heavily patinated rust beneath. You can still see the impact of the old rust on the outer portion of the helmet by way of many small spots and one large area of light pitting. The helmet is clearly quite old.

At first glance it reminds me of some Sudanese helmets, but it seems perhaps too refined for that.

I am looking forward to any input regarding the origins of this piece.

mahratt · 10th October 2013, 07:09 PM

The version of Sudanese origin seems to me to be correct.

Runjeet Singh · 10th October 2013, 10:41 PM

Hi Charles,

I am not sure if is OK to post this link - but it is sold - so I hope it's OK.

I have been told that these helmets were made in Birmingham, England (my birthplace!) and exported to Africa. I'm still looking for a source to verify this.

Be sure to click the link at the bottom of the page which shows a similar helmet which was captured by the Royal Regiment of Fusiliers (Royal Warwickshire) at the battle of Omdurman (Sudan) 1898. It is complete with it's thick curtain like lining.

Regards,
Runjeet

In this forum please post a photo only and not a link to a sales site. If you want to post a link to your website do so in the swap forum.

Robert

CharlesS · 10th October 2013, 11:43 PM

Thanks for the input guys.

Runjeet, that one you have shown us is identical for all practical purposes.

The British affiliation would certainly explain the very finished look that I would not have expected on Sudanese armor. It is likely a machined helmet as no hammer marks are visible.

ariel · 11th October 2013, 03:24 AM

A+ to Mahratt!

Runjeet Singh · 11th October 2013, 07:52 PM

Hi Charles, All,

Here is the description from a similar helmet I have had in the past:

Scarce 19th Century Sudanese Helmet. Of large proportions, probably worn with a small turban or with padding on the head.

A large and deep steel bowl, of two piece construction, terminating with a faceted knob finial.

A long nasal guard, with a typical screw fastening to hold it in place. A complete camail with double ring maile in an interlocking pattern. Some traces of silver paint where a previous owner has decorated the helmet. A rare and impressive item.

For a similar example please see P.149, Splendeur Des Armes Orientales (Ricketts/Missilier) 1988. There is also a similar example shown in at St Johns House Museum, Warwick, England.

Overall Height: 22in (560mm)
Bowl diameter: 8 1/4in(210mm)

I attach photos of my helmet and the one from the St Johns Museum.

Regards,
Runjeet

napoleon · 12th February 2014, 06:38 PM

egypt seems a good possibility.

Battara · 13th February 2014, 01:24 AM

Nah, it's a Persian-WWI German fusion helmet. Very popular with the kids today!

10th October 2013, 05:49 PM	#1
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,857	Help with Helmet Identification Hope I can get some help with the proper identification of the cultural origin of this unique helmet. It has some features that seem Islamic....spiked(if subdued) top, nose guard, and Islamic style chain mail...but some unique features as well. It is a two piece dome with the bottom portion riveted to the top at the rib, which hides the rivets. This recreates a very deep dome. The helmet was found complete, but in pretty rough shape with a outer layer of active rust with heavily patinated rust beneath. You can still see the impact of the old rust on the outer portion of the helmet by way of many small spots and one large area of light pitting. The helmet is clearly quite old. At first glance it reminds me of some Sudanese helmets, but it seems perhaps too refined for that. I am looking forward to any input regarding the origins of this piece. Attached Images

10th October 2013, 10:41 PM	#3
Runjeet Singh Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Warwickshire, England Posts: 150	Hi Charles, I am not sure if is OK to post this link - but it is sold - so I hope it's OK. I have been told that these helmets were made in Birmingham, England (my birthplace!) and exported to Africa. I'm still looking for a source to verify this. Be sure to click the link at the bottom of the page which shows a similar helmet which was captured by the Royal Regiment of Fusiliers (Royal Warwickshire) at the battle of Omdurman (Sudan) 1898. It is complete with it's thick curtain like lining. Regards, Runjeet In this forum please post a photo only and not a link to a sales site. If you want to post a link to your website do so in the swap forum. Robert Last edited by Robert; 11th October 2013 at 06:38 AM.

12th February 2014, 06:38 PM	#7
napoleon Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 88	helmet egypt seems a good possibility.

10th October 2013, 07:09 PM	#2
mahratt Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Russia Posts: 1,042	The version of Sudanese origin seems to me to be correct.

10th October 2013, 11:43 PM	#4
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,857	Thanks for the input guys. Runjeet, that one you have shown us is identical for all practical purposes. The British affiliation would certainly explain the very finished look that I would not have expected on Sudanese armor. It is likely a machined helmet as no hammer marks are visible.

11th October 2013, 03:24 AM	#5
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	A+ to Mahratt!

11th October 2013, 07:52 PM	#6
Runjeet Singh Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Warwickshire, England Posts: 150	Hi Charles, All, Here is the description from a similar helmet I have had in the past: Scarce 19th Century Sudanese Helmet. Of large proportions, probably worn with a small turban or with padding on the head. A large and deep steel bowl, of two piece construction, terminating with a faceted knob finial. A long nasal guard, with a typical screw fastening to hold it in place. A complete camail with double ring maile in an interlocking pattern. Some traces of silver paint where a previous owner has decorated the helmet. A rare and impressive item. For a similar example please see P.149, Splendeur Des Armes Orientales (Ricketts/Missilier) 1988. There is also a similar example shown in at St Johns House Museum, Warwick, England. Overall Height: 22in (560mm) Bowl diameter: 8 1/4in(210mm) I attach photos of my helmet and the one from the St Johns Museum. Regards, Runjeet

13th February 2014, 01:24 AM	#8
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,220	Nah, it's a Persian-WWI German fusion helmet. Very popular with the kids today!