Pamor Kembang Pete (Stinky Bean)

Bjorn · 3rd February 2013, 05:31 PM

I stumbled upon a pamor called kembang pete. I believe the pete here refers to pete beans, known in English under various names (sator bean, stinky bean, bitter bean, etc.). Personally I find them delicious and that is probably why this pamor immediately intrigued me.

If you compare the below photo of the beans still in their pod, I think it looks very similar to the pattern depicted on the keris' blade. However, kembang means flower, which suggests the pattern should resemble the flowers instead of the beans (flowers also pictured below). Is it possible that kembang here actually does refer to the beans, and not the flowers? Or is that wishful thinking on my part?

Also, I'd love to know what this pamor represents. What are the societal implications? Was it popular, rare, used by a specific sort of people? I'd like to know as much as possible about this pamor, so if anyone has knowledge to share it would be greatly appreciated.

A. G. Maisey · 4th February 2013, 08:23 AM

Yuuzan, may I enquire who provided you with this name for this pamor?

Bjorn · 4th February 2013, 11:15 AM

I just stumbled across it when looking for pictures of what kembang pala looks like. It could, of course, be a name made up by a seller for fun and extra appeal (although I really hope this isn't the case). I included the links to the two pages that feature this pamor below.

A. G. Maisey · 4th February 2013, 01:32 PM

Thank you Yuuzan.

I'm not going to comment on this matter, but I will most humbly offer this suggestion:-

Try to obtain the books listed below and use them as reference works, I feel their contents would be invaluable for you.

1. Krisses-A critical Bibliography-David van Duuren.Pictures Publishers,Polstraat 52,4261 BV,Wijk en Aalburg,Holland.

2. Keris Jawa-antara Mystik dan Nalar-Haryono Haryoguritno- P.T. Indonesia Kebanggaanku-Jakarta, ISBN: 979-25-2530-0. Text in Indonesian.

3.The World of the Javanese Keris-Garrett and Bronwen Solyom,East-West Centre-Hawaii,1978.

4. Ensiklopedi Keris- Bambang Harsrinuksmo, Gramedia- Jakarta, ISBN: 979-22-0649-3.Text in Indonesian

5. The Kris-An Earthly Approach to a Cosmic Symbol-David van Duuren.Pictures PublishersPolstraat 52,4261 BV,Wijk en Aalburg,Holland.

Bjorn · 4th February 2013, 01:45 PM

Thank you for the recommendations Alan,

I had some of those books on my wish list already, and will add the ones I did not. I am keen to read them but owing to my present financial situation I fear it may be a while unless I come across affordable 2nd-hand copies. I'll keep an eye out.

VANDOO · 5th February 2013, 01:51 AM

A VERY INTERESTING KERIS, I KNOW VERY LITTLE ABOUT KERIS BUT DO LIKE THEM. THIS IS DIFFERENT THAN I HAVE SEEN IS IT A OLD PARMOUR DONE A BIT DIFFERENT OR SOMETHING NEW

I DON'T KNOW.
I DO LIKE IT.

THE KERIS BLADE IN GENERAL HAS A ROUGH BLADE TEXTURE THAT WOULD NOT GO IN AND OUT SMOOTHLY WHEN STABBING.
DAGGERS FROM MOST OTHER CULTURES AND COUNTRYS HAVE SMOOTH BLADES. YOUR EXAMPLE WOULD BE A BUMPY RIDE GOING IN AND OUT. OUCH!
THE STINKY BEAN IDEA IS FUN TOO REGARDLESS OF IF ITS TRUE OR NOT.

kai · 5th February 2013, 11:52 AM

Quote:

I had some of those books on my wish list already, and will add the ones I did not. I am keen to read them but owing to my present financial situation I fear it may be a while unless I come across affordable 2nd-hand copies. I'll keep an eye out.

Check your local library. If they don't have a copy, they should be able to loan it from another library (Dutch or even internationally); ask for the fee first (usually very reasonable).

Actually, I'd toss "4. Ensiklopedi Keris" for those not speaking Indonesian - much of the info therein can be compiled from (more up-to-date) online sources nowadays. I'd go for late Karsten Sejr Jensen's "Kris disk" (CD) or the recent translation of Isaac Groneman "The Javanese Kris", instead.

Both books by David van Duuren have Dutch versions which seem to be offered a little cheaper than the English editions. There will me minor differences/additions.

Regards,
Kai

3rd February 2013, 05:31 PM	#1
Bjorn Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Netherlands Posts: 188	Pamor Kembang Pete (Stinky Bean) I stumbled upon a pamor called kembang pete. I believe the pete here refers to pete beans, known in English under various names (sator bean, stinky bean, bitter bean, etc.). Personally I find them delicious and that is probably why this pamor immediately intrigued me. If you compare the below photo of the beans still in their pod, I think it looks very similar to the pattern depicted on the keris' blade. However, kembang means flower, which suggests the pattern should resemble the flowers instead of the beans (flowers also pictured below). Is it possible that kembang here actually does refer to the beans, and not the flowers? Or is that wishful thinking on my part? Also, I'd love to know what this pamor represents. What are the societal implications? Was it popular, rare, used by a specific sort of people? I'd like to know as much as possible about this pamor, so if anyone has knowledge to share it would be greatly appreciated. Attached Images

4th February 2013, 11:15 AM	#3
Bjorn Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Netherlands Posts: 188	I just stumbled across it when looking for pictures of what kembang pala looks like. It could, of course, be a name made up by a seller for fun and extra appeal (although I really hope this isn't the case). I included the links to the two pages that feature this pamor below. Last edited by David; 4th February 2013 at 03:19 PM. Reason: Sorry, commercial links are forbidden on this forum.

5th February 2013, 01:51 AM	#6
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	A VERY INTERESTING KERIS, I KNOW VERY LITTLE ABOUT KERIS BUT DO LIKE THEM. THIS IS DIFFERENT THAN I HAVE SEEN IS IT A OLD PARMOUR DONE A BIT DIFFERENT OR SOMETHING NEW I DON'T KNOW. I DO LIKE IT. THE KERIS BLADE IN GENERAL HAS A ROUGH BLADE TEXTURE THAT WOULD NOT GO IN AND OUT SMOOTHLY WHEN STABBING. DAGGERS FROM MOST OTHER CULTURES AND COUNTRYS HAVE SMOOTH BLADES. YOUR EXAMPLE WOULD BE A BUMPY RIDE GOING IN AND OUT. OUCH! THE STINKY BEAN IDEA IS FUN TOO REGARDLESS OF IF ITS TRUE OR NOT. Last edited by VANDOO; 5th February 2013 at 07:07 PM.

4th February 2013, 08:23 AM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,898	Yuuzan, may I enquire who provided you with this name for this pamor?

4th February 2013, 01:32 PM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,898	Thank you Yuuzan. I'm not going to comment on this matter, but I will most humbly offer this suggestion:- Try to obtain the books listed below and use them as reference works, I feel their contents would be invaluable for you. 1. Krisses-A critical Bibliography-David van Duuren.Pictures Publishers,Polstraat 52,4261 BV,Wijk en Aalburg,Holland. 2. Keris Jawa-antara Mystik dan Nalar-Haryono Haryoguritno- P.T. Indonesia Kebanggaanku-Jakarta, ISBN: 979-25-2530-0. Text in Indonesian. 3.The World of the Javanese Keris-Garrett and Bronwen Solyom,East-West Centre-Hawaii,1978. 4. Ensiklopedi Keris- Bambang Harsrinuksmo, Gramedia- Jakarta, ISBN: 979-22-0649-3.Text in Indonesian 5. The Kris-An Earthly Approach to a Cosmic Symbol-David van Duuren.Pictures PublishersPolstraat 52,4261 BV,Wijk en Aalburg,Holland.

4th February 2013, 01:45 PM	#5
Bjorn Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Netherlands Posts: 188	Thank you for the recommendations Alan, I had some of those books on my wish list already, and will add the ones I did not. I am keen to read them but owing to my present financial situation I fear it may be a while unless I come across affordable 2nd-hand copies. I'll keep an eye out.