Non-Moro Filipino Kris Swords

VVV · 21st December 2011, 07:42 PM

Now and then, even if they seem to be quite rare, we encounter non-Moro Filipino kris swords. Unlike some of the Moro swords made of broken kris these swords does not look (to me anyway) as if they originally were Moro kris. Size-wise they are much longer than a cut down Moro kris and also at the gangya-region they seem to differ.

Do they come from Visayan immigrants to Mindanao?
Or was the kris sword tradition still active in the Visayas?
Any other relevant reference swords (not the more common Luzon kris knives), ideas or comments?

Michael

PS The lower kris is the "average" blade length of a late 19th/early 20th C Moro kris.

Sajen · 21st December 2011, 09:46 PM

Hello Michael,

the two big ones are really beautiful and remember me to the shown examples in the Macau Museum of Art display from 2006.
The small one seems to be recarved at the gandhik area.

I don't think that this one matching with the two others.

Regards,

Detlef

Battara · 21st December 2011, 09:52 PM

Yes there was a lot of trade between the Visayas and Mindanao, blades included. The top 2 have Visayan scabbards (and the top one a Panay hilt? - hard for me to see clearly).

There are these and then the Ilocano wavy blades that are different (middle one on the Macao exhibit picture).

These 2 areas seem to have wavy blades outside of the Moro and lumad lands.

kai · 21st December 2011, 10:12 PM

Hello Michael,

Nice examples!

I agree that the top 2 are Visayan with locally forged blades. I do feel that these fall short of a kris/keris definition and, thus, wouldn't call them kris swords (even though their design was likely based on Moro kris).

The lower one doesn't look Visayan to me. Based on the weird gangya scroll work, could this more likely be a Lumad piece?

Regards,
Kai

VVV · 22nd December 2011, 02:55 PM

Thanks x 3,

I think my top sword resembles the Ilocano from Macao?
Even if the hilt and the scabbard is different the crosspiece and the blade seems to be related?
On the odd lower one, how do you know it is Lumad?
At least the scabbard is resembling the Visayan style?

Michael

PS Here is another shot of the hilt.

VANDOO · 22nd December 2011, 08:17 PM

USING THE SEARCH IN ARCHIVES, LOOK FOR "KRIS SWORD VARIATIONS" BY VANDOO POSTED 01-19-2004. THERE ARE PICTURES THERE OF A KERIS SAID TO BE OF VISIAN ORIGIN. I DON'T KNOW HOW TO DO A LINK OR I WOULD.

MaharlikaTimawa · 23rd February 2017, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VVV

Now and then, even if they seem to be quite rare, we encounter non-Moro Filipino kris swords. Unlike some of the Moro swords made of broken kris these swords does not look (to me anyway) as if they originally were Moro kris. Size-wise they are much longer than a cut down Moro kris and also at the gangya-region they seem to differ.

Do they come from Visayan immigrants to Mindanao?
Or was the kris sword tradition still active in the Visayas?
Any other relevant reference swords (not the more common Luzon kris knives), ideas or comments?

Michael

PS The lower kris is the "average" blade length of a late 19th/early 20th C Moro kris.

Could you post the measurements of the blades from top to bottom

Thanks in advanced

- Brandon

21st December 2011, 07:42 PM	#1
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Non-Moro Filipino Kris Swords Now and then, even if they seem to be quite rare, we encounter non-Moro Filipino kris swords. Unlike some of the Moro swords made of broken kris these swords does not look (to me anyway) as if they originally were Moro kris. Size-wise they are much longer than a cut down Moro kris and also at the gangya-region they seem to differ. Do they come from Visayan immigrants to Mindanao? Or was the kris sword tradition still active in the Visayas? Any other relevant reference swords (not the more common Luzon kris knives), ideas or comments? Michael PS The lower kris is the "average" blade length of a late 19th/early 20th C Moro kris. Attached Images Last edited by VVV; 21st December 2011 at 08:02 PM. Reason: Added PS

21st December 2011, 09:46 PM	#2
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,125	Hello Michael, the two big ones are really beautiful and remember me to the shown examples in the Macau Museum of Art display from 2006. The small one seems to be recarved at the gandhik area. I don't think that this one matching with the two others. Regards, Detlef Attached Images

22nd December 2011, 02:55 PM	#5
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Thanks x 3, I think my top sword resembles the Ilocano from Macao? Even if the hilt and the scabbard is different the crosspiece and the blade seems to be related? On the odd lower one, how do you know it is Lumad? At least the scabbard is resembling the Visayan style? Michael PS Here is another shot of the hilt. Attached Images

21st December 2011, 09:52 PM	#3
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,257	Yes there was a lot of trade between the Visayas and Mindanao, blades included. The top 2 have Visayan scabbards (and the top one a Panay hilt? - hard for me to see clearly). There are these and then the Ilocano wavy blades that are different (middle one on the Macao exhibit picture). These 2 areas seem to have wavy blades outside of the Moro and lumad lands.

21st December 2011, 10:12 PM	#4
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,255	Hello Michael, Nice examples! I agree that the top 2 are Visayan with locally forged blades. I do feel that these fall short of a kris/keris definition and, thus, wouldn't call them kris swords (even though their design was likely based on Moro kris). The lower one doesn't look Visayan to me. Based on the weird gangya scroll work, could this more likely be a Lumad piece? Regards, Kai

22nd December 2011, 08:17 PM	#6
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	USING THE SEARCH IN ARCHIVES, LOOK FOR "KRIS SWORD VARIATIONS" BY VANDOO POSTED 01-19-2004. THERE ARE PICTURES THERE OF A KERIS SAID TO BE OF VISIAN ORIGIN. I DON'T KNOW HOW TO DO A LINK OR I WOULD.