Please help me identify these.

[CPT Kight]

I am deployed to Iraq and purchased these as Iraqi sword an knifes. They have the following written on them:

Sword= 1171 and "In the name of GOD"
Matching knife "There is no God but God."
Horse head knife "In the name of God"

They have either ivory, or horn handles, and silver sheaths, and
all of the blades are Demascus.

If any one could tell me any thing about these I would appriciate it.

My intent is to place these in a display case as a memoir of my time spent over here.

Thank you,
CPT Kight

[erlikhan]

I am afraid they dont look antique but quite newly made Indian or Pakistani stuff (top quality samples of them) but I can be wrong. Are the blade edges sharp?
regards

[Rick]

Start looking for pieces that look more like these :
http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000882.html
http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001312.html
http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001605.html

[CPT Kight]

Originally Posted by erlikhan

I am afraid they dont look antique but quite newly made Indian or Pakistani stuff (top quality samples of them) but I can be wrong. Are the blade edges sharp?
regards

No, the edges appear to have been dulled down.
I should mention that the Damascus used in the blades is true Damascus. On the knife with the handle that matches the sword some rust has begun to work at the back of the blade and the rust appears to be between some of the layers of the Damascus. I have checked with several of the local interpreters that we use here and they feel that the knifes and sword are in fact the real thing. They have nothing to gain or lose in stating their assessment. (I have not, nor will I be purchasing from them.) Also I have spent the last 11 months looking at various broken down, imitation, and replicated, knifes from all over, some very cheep some very nice imitations. I do not believe this to be one of them. I have been around knifes, knife making, smithing, and foundry work sense I was a child. I have yet to see someone actually go through the work required to build the Damascus blades in an effort to build an imitation. There are ways to fake Damascus but these blades show the fine lines between the layers even on the edge. with a thumb nail you can even feel the micro serrations along the cutting edge of the blades. I know they look new. Good for me they have been well preserved. I spent a great deal of time with mild hand soap and a buffing cloth to clean them up. I sprayed them down with WD-40 and took the pictures before I wiped off the excess WD-40. They appear shiny for that reason.

I am interested in the design, and where they may have come from in this region. I am not concerned about their authenticity.

Thank you for your input I know it is difficult to judge some thing via photo.
CPT Kight

[spiral]

Quote:
Originally Posted by erlikhan
I am afraid they dont look antique but quite newly made Indian or Pakistani stuff (top quality samples of them) but I can be wrong. Are the blade edges sharp?
regards

Quote.

No, the edges appear to have been dulled down.
I should mention that the Damascus used in the blades is true Damascus. On the knife with the handle that matches the sword some rust has begun to work at the back of the blade and the rust appears to be between some of the layers of the Damascus. I have checked with several of the local interpreters that we use here and they feel that the knifes and sword are in fact the real thing. They have nothing to gain or lose in stating their assessment. (I have not, nor will I be purchasing from them.) Also I have spent the last 11 months looking at various broken down, imitation, and replicated, knifes from all over, some very cheep some very nice imitations. I do not believe this to be one of them. I have been around knifes, knife making, smithing, and foundry work sense I was a child. I have yet to see someone actually go through the work required to build the Damascus blades in an effort to build an imitation. There are ways to fake Damascus but these blades show the fine lines between the layers even on the edge. with a thumb nail you can even feel the micro serrations along the cutting edge of the blades. I know they look new. Good for me they have been well preserved. I spent a great deal of time with mild hand soap and a buffing cloth to clean them up. I sprayed them down with WD-40 and took the pictures before I wiped off the excess WD-40. They appear shiny for that reason.

I am interested in the design, and where they may have come from in this region. I am not concerned about their authenticity.

Thank you for your input I know it is difficult to judge some thing via photo.
CPT Kight


End Quote
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Welcome CPT Kight.

And to all those who travel for pleasure.

They are modern Indian or maybe Pakistani replicas. Most likely They havent ever been sharp. They are good quality ornamental stuff. .

Before you become to convinced about them heres something for you to look at.

http://www.worldknives.com/product.a...=617&typeuid=1

The handles pieces are probably bone.

Perhaps the people you asked didnt wish to upset you or rock the apple cart?

Heres another website that specilises in modern Indian damascus.

http://arms.en.ec21.com/GC00018948/B...d_Daggers.html

I hope these sites & indeed this one is a usefull part of the learning curve for you.

Rick pointed out some good examples of what to look for.

But as you bought them to display it does seem they will fit your purpoise?{Isnt that a dolphin? }


Cheers,
Spiral

[erlikhan]

Others can know much better than me, I am not an Indian arms specialist at all, but as far as I have seen on ebay, and in real, general rules for today's factory produced Indian arms are:

Almost all of them have dull edges (not dulled down later, they have been just produced dull, cause otherwise it would cost higher, and would carry rsome risk of damaging the blade). They have thick sheets of blades with already dull edges.
The pattern is not hand forged but factory machine produced. All newly made ones have this kind of pattern. Antique patterns are quite different . Factory damascus flowlines can continue whole bladeway like in your pictures but hand forged ones cant do that. ( I hope more experienced friends here can confirm me or correct if I am wrong).
Most of the all-metal kind new arms have exactly this kind of silver koftgari. They are very skillful in covering everything they wish full with koftgari for really cheap costs, no problem for them.
Again, I am not an expert on the field and I cant bet on it, and hope to see comments of real Indian arms experts in the forum as I wonder if my informations are correct or not, and I hope they confirm the authenticity of your items.
regards

[erlikhan]

ahh. i see that spiral has moved before me . I hope you didnt pay high for them.

[CPT Kight]

Thank you for your help gentlemen, I have gone to the web sites that were mentioned and have indeed learned form the experience. (By the way did you know that “Crow” tastes like chicken.)
I stand corrected / educated your choice. It would appear that as with most of the things I have learned from this particular trip abroad that things are seldom as they first appear.
In your service CPT Kight.

PS I paid $150.00 for one knife $135.00 for the second and $400.00 for the sword, all within reason for my display I think.

[Andrew]

As the original question posed by the thread starter has been answered, and the discussion has drifted off-topic, I'm locking this one.

If anyone would like to continue discussing the weapons here, feel free to start a new thread.