And what is this one??

Oriental-Arms · 1st January 2010, 03:42 PM

It so happens, that also after many years in the business we are surprised by an un identified object. These are always exciting moment. Here is a good example. This one just arrived:

Massive blade 18 inches long, very well made, shallow diamond cross section and very delicately decorated with gold and silver work and very finely etched at its upper part:

Massive elephant ivory grips with forked pommel delicately engraved and painted black in a way reminding the scrimshaw work of sea going people:

Blackened copper scabbard with very well repousse work.

All of very good quality and workmanship. One can find similarities to the Caucassian Qamas, Turkish Yataghans, Greek Daggers, East European swords and the like. The truth is that we don’t have a clue of what is this one.

All suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

Lew · 1st January 2010, 04:28 PM

Seems Greek to me? Whatever it is it is quite nice.

This book may help?

http://www.explorecrete.com/traditio...tan-dagger.htm

kronckew · 1st January 2010, 05:01 PM

grips reminds me a bit of a cretian knife. they can have quite fancy silver scabbards...

edited: should have read above post 1st, great minds think alike i guess

Oriental-Arms · 1st January 2010, 05:30 PM

I do have the book on Cretan knife, but except for the forked pommel there is nothing there similar to this dagger.
p.s. Forked pommels can also be found on Turkish Bichaq, Russian Shashqas and many other blades, not to mention the endless variety of Yataghans.

ilias · 1st January 2010, 06:22 PM

In my opinion this is an East European short sword/dagger.The handle has clear European work.About the blade and the scabbard they are from East.Just an opinion.
All the best
Ilias

Jim McDougall · 1st January 2010, 09:16 PM

Most interesting piece, and in accord with the well placed assessments already suggested, I would add the suggestion that perhaps it might be an Ottoman naval dirk.
In certain ways it seems to recall the Caucasian kindjhal and the Persian Qama in profile, and the cleft pommel indeed present in Caucasian and Bukharen weapons, influences all present in Ottoman forces.

While not specifically comparable to the Cretan or Greek weapons, this gestalt seems present in the diffusion of weapons through the Ottoman Empire as with this presumably early to mid 19th century weapon, perhaps earlier.

I think the ivory, the well placed note concerning scrimshaw, might lend to this being a naval weapon, and the tamga like fluorish in gold may suggest an individual of standing from officer to merchant in sea trade.

1st January 2010, 03:42 PM	#1
Oriental-Arms Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Haifa, Israel Posts: 183	And what is this one?? It so happens, that also after many years in the business we are surprised by an un identified object. These are always exciting moment. Here is a good example. This one just arrived: Massive blade 18 inches long, very well made, shallow diamond cross section and very delicately decorated with gold and silver work and very finely etched at its upper part: Massive elephant ivory grips with forked pommel delicately engraved and painted black in a way reminding the scrimshaw work of sea going people: Blackened copper scabbard with very well repousse work. All of very good quality and workmanship. One can find similarities to the Caucassian Qamas, Turkish Yataghans, Greek Daggers, East European swords and the like. The truth is that we don’t have a clue of what is this one. All suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

1st January 2010, 04:28 PM	#2
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Seems Greek to me? Whatever it is it is quite nice. This book may help? http://www.explorecrete.com/traditio...tan-dagger.htm Last edited by LOUIEBLADES; 1st January 2010 at 04:41 PM.

1st January 2010, 05:30 PM	#4
Oriental-Arms Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Haifa, Israel Posts: 183	Cretan knife? I do have the book on Cretan knife, but except for the forked pommel there is nothing there similar to this dagger. p.s. Forked pommels can also be found on Turkish Bichaq, Russian Shashqas and many other blades, not to mention the endless variety of Yataghans.

1st January 2010, 05:01 PM	#3
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,170	grips reminds me a bit of a cretian knife. they can have quite fancy silver scabbards... edited: should have read above post 1st, great minds think alike i guess

1st January 2010, 06:22 PM	#5
ilias Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: GREECE Posts: 73	In my opinion this is an East European short sword/dagger.The handle has clear European work.About the blade and the scabbard they are from East.Just an opinion. All the best Ilias

1st January 2010, 09:16 PM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,902	Most interesting piece, and in accord with the well placed assessments already suggested, I would add the suggestion that perhaps it might be an Ottoman naval dirk. In certain ways it seems to recall the Caucasian kindjhal and the Persian Qama in profile, and the cleft pommel indeed present in Caucasian and Bukharen weapons, influences all present in Ottoman forces. While not specifically comparable to the Cretan or Greek weapons, this gestalt seems present in the diffusion of weapons through the Ottoman Empire as with this presumably early to mid 19th century weapon, perhaps earlier. I think the ivory, the well placed note concerning scrimshaw, might lend to this being a naval weapon, and the tamga like fluorish in gold may suggest an individual of standing from officer to merchant in sea trade.