Fledgling keris collector first purchases

Mefidk · 9th May 2009, 06:36 PM

Hi folks

I was wandering round my local (Danish) weapons fair a couple of weeks ago looking very hard for interesting ethnographic swords from India or Indonesia, but finding only very many local European swords, then my eye fell on a small stand selling keris. I had promised myself that I would not start on these but with nothing else to buy and cash from the sale of some WWI & WWII swords burning a hole in my pocket I got tempted....so now I guess I'm a fledgling keris collector, and I'm hoping I did not buy too much junk.

This is the first piece I picked up. I was told that it was from northern Sumatra, about 200 years old, and probably belonging to an important man due to the silver ornamentation. Happily I was sensible enough to also buy a book on keris although I can already see that one book is not going to be enough.

This is what I think I know, and I'd welcome corrections and further information.

Hilt: ivory, pangulu hilt
Mendak: brass
Region: Sulawesi, Buginese
Pamor: kulit semangka ???
Buntut: Silver

I think that I was told it was from Aceh because there is a very similar keris in Fig 114 of Den Indonesiske Kris, by Karsten Sejr Jensen, but all the other keris of this form I have been able to find pictures of are Buginese and I think I understand from the text that Aceh keris are mostly imported from other areas since the sewar and rencong are the traditional weapons of that region. But I will happily stand to be corrected. I can see very strong similarities between the buntut in fig. 114 and the one on my own.

The last picture shows the other two keris that tempted me that day - but I think I'll start separate threads for them later when I've done a little more research.

I have found these really fascinating and I can already feel that I'm hooked on keris as well as the larger weapons from that region - no hope for salvation I'm afraid.

Chris

Sajen · 9th May 2009, 10:48 PM

Hello Chris,
very nice Bugis keris you bought. The hilt is from sea ivory and not from elephant. My guess is that it is a pure Bugis keris, I don't see that it is maybe from Aceh, but difficult to say sometimes. You can find Bugis keris with this form also at Sumatra and Sumbawa.
The other keris with naga at the blade is recent and from cheap quality. The third blade seems to be old and good. It is a iras blade where the ganja is not separate.
sajen

Rick · 10th May 2009, 12:46 AM

Third keris appears to be ganja iras .

drdavid · 10th May 2009, 01:24 AM

I think you chose very well for your first purchase. The bugis blades covered a wide area so it can be very hard to say exactly where they came from. The third one also looks an interesting older blade but for me this hilt does not sit well with the blade.
drd

David · 10th May 2009, 02:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mefidk

I have found these really fascinating and I can already feel that I'm hooked on keris as well as the larger weapons from that region - no hope for salvation I'm afraid.
Chris

Yep, i'm afraid that's how it works. There's little hope for you now.

Pretty nice buy for a first keris (the bugis). Looks more Sulawesi to me, but i also get a bit confused when it comes to the subtleties of various Bugis origins. The Pendokok (what you called the mendak which is really a Javanese term for a slightly different piece that fits in the same position) doesn't look like it fits quite right, but the rest is pretty nice.
The third keris looks like it is a kebo dhapur, meaning the the gandik is longer than on other keris. Such keris are often said to be good for those involved in agriculture. I would agree that the hilt doesn't seem a good fit (stylistically), though it is an interesting one. Was there a sheath for this one?
Oh, and welcome to the forum.

Alam Shah · 10th May 2009, 02:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mefidk

I have found these really fascinating and I can already feel that I'm hooked on keris as well as the larger weapons from that region - no hope for salvation I'm afraid.

Chris

Hi Chris,

I sorry to hear that you're got this infection. Welcome to the club.

Congratulations on owning these pieces. A good start, unique pieces in their own way.

The first is a nice Bugis piece. The hilt is marine ivory. Probably not from Sulawesi but from other bugis-influenced regions such as Sumatra or Sumbawa, based on a few indicators. The second blade seems to be a crude Pattani naga form, Malay Peninsular.. can we have close-up pics of the gandik area of the blade (where the serpent's head is), and close-up of the hilt, from various angles, the front and side. Nice Coteng or Tajong form. The third is a ganja iras blade form with pamor adeg. Hilt is probably made from bone, based on the porous inner carved area. The hilt does not sit well, probably due to a missing mendak.

Mefidk · 10th May 2009, 08:17 AM

Thank you very much for the information. I'm glad the swords were not swapped for junk

The kingfisher hilt was the reason I bought the second piece. I was told later by another collector that the fellow I bought it from once had a large collection of these but after retirement he has sold them all and I got the last one. No sheath I'm afraid. I've attached a few more pictures of this one.

The third piece I was told was from Bali and about 300 years old (the bone hilt certainly gives the impression of some serious age). As far as I can find out the figure is a representation of agressive Shiva Bhairava sitting in Rajalilisana position.
Is it possible to determine whether the hilt and blade have the same origins, and if so figure out what type of sheath and mendak I would need to find to complete the piece? I can see some new ones for sale on the web so I guess they can also make replacement parts.

Alam Shah · 10th May 2009, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mefidk

The kingfisher hilt was the reason I bought the second piece.

I thought so, too.

It's a Tajong form, more info (( here )). The blade tang seems to have been shortened. The naga form is Pattanese, crude and is probably not too old.

Henk · 10th May 2009, 10:17 AM

The third piece is not Bali. The hilt is from North Java, Cirebon imho. The blade is gonjo iras indeed.

Alam Shah · 10th May 2009, 11:30 AM

Hi Chris,

Can we have a few pics of the 3rd hilt, from the front and from the other side.. and a full pic of the blade, please.

9th May 2009, 06:36 PM	#1
Mefidk Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Denmark Posts: 157	Fledgling keris collector first purchases Hi folks I was wandering round my local (Danish) weapons fair a couple of weeks ago looking very hard for interesting ethnographic swords from India or Indonesia, but finding only very many local European swords, then my eye fell on a small stand selling keris. I had promised myself that I would not start on these but with nothing else to buy and cash from the sale of some WWI & WWII swords burning a hole in my pocket I got tempted....so now I guess I'm a fledgling keris collector, and I'm hoping I did not buy too much junk. This is the first piece I picked up. I was told that it was from northern Sumatra, about 200 years old, and probably belonging to an important man due to the silver ornamentation. Happily I was sensible enough to also buy a book on keris although I can already see that one book is not going to be enough. This is what I think I know, and I'd welcome corrections and further information. Hilt: ivory, pangulu hilt Mendak: brass Region: Sulawesi, Buginese Pamor: kulit semangka ??? Buntut: Silver I think that I was told it was from Aceh because there is a very similar keris in Fig 114 of Den Indonesiske Kris, by Karsten Sejr Jensen, but all the other keris of this form I have been able to find pictures of are Buginese and I think I understand from the text that Aceh keris are mostly imported from other areas since the sewar and rencong are the traditional weapons of that region. But I will happily stand to be corrected. I can see very strong similarities between the buntut in fig. 114 and the one on my own. The last picture shows the other two keris that tempted me that day - but I think I'll start separate threads for them later when I've done a little more research. I have found these really fascinating and I can already feel that I'm hooked on keris as well as the larger weapons from that region - no hope for salvation I'm afraid. Chris Attached Images Last edited by Mefidk; 9th May 2009 at 10:20 PM. Reason: needed to add pictures

9th May 2009, 10:48 PM	#2
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,734	Hello Chris, very nice Bugis keris you bought. The hilt is from sea ivory and not from elephant. My guess is that it is a pure Bugis keris, I don't see that it is maybe from Aceh, but difficult to say sometimes. You can find Bugis keris with this form also at Sumatra and Sumbawa. The other keris with naga at the blade is recent and from cheap quality. The third blade seems to be old and good. It is a iras blade where the ganja is not separate. sajen Last edited by Sajen; 9th May 2009 at 11:28 PM.

10th May 2009, 08:17 AM	#7
Mefidk Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Denmark Posts: 157	Thank you very much for the information. I'm glad the swords were not swapped for junk The kingfisher hilt was the reason I bought the second piece. I was told later by another collector that the fellow I bought it from once had a large collection of these but after retirement he has sold them all and I got the last one. No sheath I'm afraid. I've attached a few more pictures of this one. The third piece I was told was from Bali and about 300 years old (the bone hilt certainly gives the impression of some serious age). As far as I can find out the figure is a representation of agressive Shiva Bhairava sitting in Rajalilisana position. Is it possible to determine whether the hilt and blade have the same origins, and if so figure out what type of sheath and mendak I would need to find to complete the piece? I can see some new ones for sale on the web so I guess they can also make replacement parts. Attached Images

10th May 2009, 12:46 AM	#3
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,288	Third keris appears to be ganja iras .

10th May 2009, 01:24 AM	#4
drdavid Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 371	I think you chose very well for your first purchase. The bugis blades covered a wide area so it can be very hard to say exactly where they came from. The third one also looks an interesting older blade but for me this hilt does not sit well with the blade. drd

10th May 2009, 10:17 AM	#9
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	The third piece is not Bali. The hilt is from North Java, Cirebon imho. The blade is gonjo iras indeed.

10th May 2009, 11:30 AM	#10
Alam Shah Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,248	Hi Chris, Can we have a few pics of the 3rd hilt, from the front and from the other side.. and a full pic of the blade, please.