Old mamluk style hilt and mounts

[francantolin]

Hello everybody,

I wanted to show you my last collection item,

I think an old silver european sword hilt and mounts in oriental-mamluk style ( big oxydation, first looked like bronze ).
( sadly the point/end piece of the scabbard mount is missing )

I think it comes from eastern Europa or Austria

I have two questions maybe you can answer:

first about decorations:

Does anybody know what represent the eagle/griffin's head on the hilt ,
the scorpions(?) or blossom-flowers on the mounts
and especially the face on the guard ?

The second more structural for a weapon:

Does anybody know how they fixed the blade in ?
With resin-lead or other stuff like they made for talwar per example ?
Or was it just made for gala-representation and not fixed at all ?

If fixed like on tulwars, how could they remove it without heating damage ??

Kind regards

[francantolin]

Then I cleaned it ( not to much)...

What do you think ?

Kind regards

[Peter Andeweg]

An interesting set. Looking at the ends of the quillons, I believe it could be French, influenced by the Egyptian campaign of Napoleon. The hilt resembles more to a camel then an eagle or phoenix to me. Parts like these were likely mounted on a presentation saber. The human face on the guard looks mythical, Ancient Greek origin perhaps, a popular fashion during the empire period.
An interesting set!

Peter

[Victrix]

Originally Posted by Peter Andeweg

An interesting set. Looking at the ends of the quillons, I believe it could be French, influenced by the Egyptian campaign of Napoleon. The hilt resembles more to a camel then an eagle or phoenix to me. Parts like these were likely mounted on a presentation saber. The human face on the guard looks mythical, Ancient Greek origin perhaps, a popular fashion during the empire period.
An interesting set!

Peter

Agree. Eagles don’t have ears. Looks more like a camel or llama? Something with fur. A small chain was attached from its mouth to the guard.

[Philip]

Originally Posted by Victrix

Agree. Eagles don’t have ears.

Yes, at least not external ones like beagles do. I'm sure these birds are capable of hearing, though.

[francantolin]

Originally Posted by Philip

Yes, at least not external ones like beagles do. I'm sure these birds are capable of hearing, though.

Sure, they have ears holes like us and the one through his mouth !

[Victrix]

Originally Posted by Philip

Yes, at least not external ones like beagles do. I'm sure these birds are capable of hearing, though.

I think you know what I mean. Sure eagles have hearing organs which are not clearly visible on the outside.

If the creature was a griffin it would have an eagle’s beak but it looks more like a muzzle to me.

[kronckew]

Originally Posted by francantolin

...
Does anybody know how they fixed the blade in ?
With resin-lead or other stuff like they made for talwar per example ?
Or was it just made for gala-representation and not fixed at all ?

If fixed like on tulwars, how could they remove it without heating damage ??

Kind regards

I recently wanted to reset a curved short sword with a red bronze rams head hilt that was a tad crooked, I put the hilt in a plastic bag and submerged the bagged hilt in boiling water. on heating the hilt got loose quickly and came off easily. The 'glue' appeared to be a tree resin beeswax mix along with some fibrous material (dry horse dung?) and some brick dust. It smelled. To fill the void better I added a bit of brick dust I reset the hilt and held it in place with the grip vertical and the blade held in alignment above it - with a bit of bodging - until it cooled. Took a fair while too. The blades have been cleaned and polished since. How they survive being stuck together during Indian summers I do not know.

see also http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...war+hilt+resin

p.s.- yours could also be a horse head, looks like a hint of a bridle. At first I thought it could be a lion's head. It;s a bit like this Brit band sword hilt I found googling.

[francantolin]

Hello,

Really Thank you all for your comments !


Thank's a lot Kronckew for the details about make/remove a sword hilt !!!

For the model, I thought too when I bought it that it was a french model inspired by the Egyptian campaign of Napoleon but I found two stamps and they are Austrian Silver Hallmarks ( 13 lot ) ( Really not easy to do a good picture of it !! )

that's why my ''eared'' eagle or camel turned to the idea of a griffin sometimes seen on Habsbourg family coat of arms and Vienna's statues

For the stamps, What is interesting is the date,
really old and well preserved item: 180(5?) if I'm right
( the last number is difficult to read ).

if 1805 it coincides with the Austerlitz battle between Napoleon and the Russian and Austrian empire ( a full circle )

[Ian]

Hi fran,

Excellent detective work on your part. The date looks to be 1805 to me too. This may be of interest in the European forum too, so I'll copy your thread over there to see if we get more comments. You'll need to check both forums for responses as the comments in each do not carry over to the other forum.

Ian