My first post and lots of questions!!

jwkiernan · 30th November 2006, 01:25 AM

Hello all,

I figured I would start my first post on the forum out with a bang so to speak....why mess with long intro's, there is time for that later...let's talk kris's!!

I just purchased a Kris the other day (my third kris). It is in very good shape but has a few patches of rust on it. Is there any way to clean these without taking away the black color of the blade. I have used lime on some of my Moro blades with great sucess, and know it is part of the ritual of cleaning a kris, I just don't have the ability to re-etch and darken the blade, or should I just keep the blade oiled and go no further (this seems detrimental). Additionally, is there anything that I should put on the ukiran to hydrate the ivory, or should it be left alone? It is very stable and I did take a very soft toothbrush to it to rmove old dust and dirt.

I am attaching a couple of pictures of the kris The ukiran is ivory and very detailed. Any other info as to where you think it may have come from and possible age (I realize this may be difficult from the photos) would be helpful. I appreciate your time and assistance. Thankyou all, I look forward to your responces!!

Take care and thanks again,

John

Rick · 30th November 2006, 01:40 AM

Hi John,
Your keris looks like a composite piece.
The handle seems like Maduran work.
The blade seems like polished Balinese work; and the scabbard looks either Sumatran or Bugis style.
Turn the handle 180 degrees.

Welcome, have a cup of coffee on me !

David · 30th November 2006, 02:18 AM

Hi John, welcome aboard.
I agree with Rick that your keris appears to be made up of parts from different regions. Lovely ivory hilt. I have used small amounts of mineral oil on some of my ivory pieces. A soft Toothbrush works well as you have noted. But your ukiran does not look too dry in the pics.
I see the rust. on your blade. Can't tell for sure but it looks like it is a fairly surface problem. I bit of oil or WD-40 and a toothbrush might help alot. You shuld, of course, keep your keris oiled regularly. Many of us use a combination of sandalwood and mineral oil or singer oil and other scented oils.
If this doesn't help you may have no choice but to fully clean the blade, striping the stain. Depending on where you live there are people who can restain a keris for you. You are correct that it would be dangerous to leave any active rust on the blade.
There is a very good thread on how to clean a keris on the old forum here. A search of that forum should bring it up.

A. G. Maisey · 30th November 2006, 03:23 AM

G'day John,

I'd be inclined to give that handle a good workout with a worn, soft old toothbrush, and a few drops of baby oil, then hand rub it until all the oil disappears. I'd repeat this a few times at intervals of a couple of days.Take it off the keris first and remove the selut.

With the blade, WD40 soak, allow to drain dry, brisk rub with a stiff nail brush. Any deeper rust, use a needle and a jewellers loupe so you can see what you are doing, and carefully pick the rust out of the individual pores of the metal. I once did a Bali blade like this----about an hour most nights for the best part of a year.Keep coming back to the blade every couple of weeks, and just keep working on it with the oil and brush until all the active rust is gone. In between times, it doesn't do any harm toi keep it wet with oil, wrapped in a plastic film---lunch wrap or plastic sleeve, or even a plastic bag.You might be able to make the blade look pretty presentable without going to a full stain.

jwkiernan · 2nd December 2006, 02:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

The blade seems like polished Balinese work
Turn the handle 180 degrees.

Rick/all,

Thank you for all of the insight that you've given me thus far. Could you please explain a bit more on polished Balinese work. Does this mean that after the blade is forged it is etched/stained and then polished rather then leaving the rougher etched look? (Please feel free to correct my terminology)

Also, you mention that the ukiran needs to be turned 180. I attempted to remove it (my others can be moved), this one won't budge.....any ideas about removing it? I tapped lightly on the ganja with a wooden mallet, maybe I need to become a bit more aggressive. I would like to get it removed so that I can soak the blade in WD40 as was suggested.

I have attached a photo of the group of my keris's. Thank you all for your kind advice and help. Your continued assistance and comments will be appreciated!!! Take care.

Respectfully,

John

A. G. Maisey · 2nd December 2006, 08:11 AM

When a keris handle will not move it could be because of a number of reasons:-

it might be glued in place with a traditional adhesive

it might be glued in place with a modern adhesive, such as araldite

it might be rusted onto the binding of tang used to achieve a pressure fit

it might be rusted to the handle itself.

I suggest that you firstly try wrapping some cloth around the blade so you can grip it, then trying to twist the handle backwards and forth. Start gently and gradually increase pressure. If you can get just a little bit of movement you may find that you can gradually improve this.

If this does not work you must heat the sorsoran area of the blade gently, hold the blade a few inches back from the heat and don't let it get hotter than is comfortable for your hand, continually retry to twist the handle.

It is sometimes useful to let it heat up, let it cool down and then reheat a few times.

For a heat source I suggest you use a small kerosene lamp or a candle.

The risks you run are these:- if you force the handle too much you can break the tang; this is not a total disaster but its not good. Tangs can be repaired.
You may alter the appearance of the blade stain where it has been heated. This is not certain, but it is a possibility. If this happens you need to do a complete strip and restain.
This is an old ivory handle. You run the risk of splitting the handle when you twist, or having it completely come apart in your hand. There is the possibility that the seller used araldite to stabilise a handle that was on the edge of falling apart.

I suggest you consider the risks before deciding how to proceed.

DaveS · 8th December 2006, 03:28 AM

John: I have to agree with Alan. That is a beautiful madura handle, and you don,t want to risk breaking it, so go slow. As far as an oil for the ivory, i use Old English Furniture Oil. It will just make a piece of ivory come alive. I also use it on wood handles, horn and antler look much better too. But PLEASE do not use it on bone. It makes bone look very greasy. Don,t ask me how i know. If you ever put it on a bone handle by mistake then soaking the handle in acetone usually will leach out the oil without harming the handle..........Dave

30th November 2006, 01:25 AM	#1
jwkiernan Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 37	My first post and lots of questions!! Hello all, I figured I would start my first post on the forum out with a bang so to speak....why mess with long intro's, there is time for that later...let's talk kris's!! I just purchased a Kris the other day (my third kris). It is in very good shape but has a few patches of rust on it. Is there any way to clean these without taking away the black color of the blade. I have used lime on some of my Moro blades with great sucess, and know it is part of the ritual of cleaning a kris, I just don't have the ability to re-etch and darken the blade, or should I just keep the blade oiled and go no further (this seems detrimental). Additionally, is there anything that I should put on the ukiran to hydrate the ivory, or should it be left alone? It is very stable and I did take a very soft toothbrush to it to rmove old dust and dirt. I am attaching a couple of pictures of the kris The ukiran is ivory and very detailed. Any other info as to where you think it may have come from and possible age (I realize this may be difficult from the photos) would be helpful. I appreciate your time and assistance. Thankyou all, I look forward to your responces!! Take care and thanks again, John Attached Images

30th November 2006, 01:40 AM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,291	Hi John, Your keris looks like a composite piece. The handle seems like Maduran work. The blade seems like polished Balinese work; and the scabbard looks either Sumatran or Bugis style. Turn the handle 180 degrees. Welcome, have a cup of coffee on me !

30th November 2006, 02:18 AM	#3
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,119	Hi John, welcome aboard. I agree with Rick that your keris appears to be made up of parts from different regions. Lovely ivory hilt. I have used small amounts of mineral oil on some of my ivory pieces. A soft Toothbrush works well as you have noted. But your ukiran does not look too dry in the pics. I see the rust. on your blade. Can't tell for sure but it looks like it is a fairly surface problem. I bit of oil or WD-40 and a toothbrush might help alot. You shuld, of course, keep your keris oiled regularly. Many of us use a combination of sandalwood and mineral oil or singer oil and other scented oils. If this doesn't help you may have no choice but to fully clean the blade, striping the stain. Depending on where you live there are people who can restain a keris for you. You are correct that it would be dangerous to leave any active rust on the blade. There is a very good thread on how to clean a keris on the old forum here. A search of that forum should bring it up.

30th November 2006, 03:23 AM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,888	G'day John, I'd be inclined to give that handle a good workout with a worn, soft old toothbrush, and a few drops of baby oil, then hand rub it until all the oil disappears. I'd repeat this a few times at intervals of a couple of days.Take it off the keris first and remove the selut. With the blade, WD40 soak, allow to drain dry, brisk rub with a stiff nail brush. Any deeper rust, use a needle and a jewellers loupe so you can see what you are doing, and carefully pick the rust out of the individual pores of the metal. I once did a Bali blade like this----about an hour most nights for the best part of a year.Keep coming back to the blade every couple of weeks, and just keep working on it with the oil and brush until all the active rust is gone. In between times, it doesn't do any harm toi keep it wet with oil, wrapped in a plastic film---lunch wrap or plastic sleeve, or even a plastic bag.You might be able to make the blade look pretty presentable without going to a full stain.

2nd December 2006, 08:11 AM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,888	When a keris handle will not move it could be because of a number of reasons:- it might be glued in place with a traditional adhesive it might be glued in place with a modern adhesive, such as araldite it might be rusted onto the binding of tang used to achieve a pressure fit it might be rusted to the handle itself. I suggest that you firstly try wrapping some cloth around the blade so you can grip it, then trying to twist the handle backwards and forth. Start gently and gradually increase pressure. If you can get just a little bit of movement you may find that you can gradually improve this. If this does not work you must heat the sorsoran area of the blade gently, hold the blade a few inches back from the heat and don't let it get hotter than is comfortable for your hand, continually retry to twist the handle. It is sometimes useful to let it heat up, let it cool down and then reheat a few times. For a heat source I suggest you use a small kerosene lamp or a candle. The risks you run are these:- if you force the handle too much you can break the tang; this is not a total disaster but its not good. Tangs can be repaired. You may alter the appearance of the blade stain where it has been heated. This is not certain, but it is a possibility. If this happens you need to do a complete strip and restain. This is an old ivory handle. You run the risk of splitting the handle when you twist, or having it completely come apart in your hand. There is the possibility that the seller used araldite to stabilise a handle that was on the edge of falling apart. I suggest you consider the risks before deciding how to proceed.

8th December 2006, 03:28 AM	#7
DaveS Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 327	John: I have to agree with Alan. That is a beautiful madura handle, and you don,t want to risk breaking it, so go slow. As far as an oil for the ivory, i use Old English Furniture Oil. It will just make a piece of ivory come alive. I also use it on wood handles, horn and antler look much better too. But PLEASE do not use it on bone. It makes bone look very greasy. Don,t ask me how i know. If you ever put it on a bone handle by mistake then soaking the handle in acetone usually will leach out the oil without harming the handle..........Dave