sundang

karset · 11th March 2009, 03:32 AM

i like this sundang, but i dont know anything,,,region?,dapur(model)?,
any comment will make me happy,,,

Sajen · 11th March 2009, 04:43 AM

Hello,
not my field but look's very interesting, I've never seen a "greneng"-form like this by a Moro-blade. Seems to be a good and old blade. Other members can tell you more for sure. Maybe try to clean it like in some threads described.
And sorry, I think it's the wrong place for a philippine blade.
Regards,
sajen

David · 11th March 2009, 05:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

Hello,
not my field but look's very interesting, I've never seen a "greneng"-form like this by a Moro-blade. Seems to be a good and old blade. Other members can tell you more for sure. Maybe try to clean it like in some threads described.
And sorry, I think it's the wrong place for a philippine blade.
Regards,
sajen

Sajen, i am pretty sure that this is not a philippine blade and that this is probably the right place to post this. Never seen a Malay sundang with quite the same ricikan though. But i'm going to go out on a limb here and say that this is a keris of Malay origin, not a Moro blade at all.

Karset, i can't tell from the photos, is the pesi round or oval or is it flat?

Amuk Murugul · 11th March 2009, 08:31 AM

Hullo everybody,

From the photos, my first guess is that the blade was made for a lesser notable (possibly ceremonial) from Sabah/North Borneo. Age probably 18thC or earlier.

Best,

karset · 11th March 2009, 12:54 PM

Sajen> Greneng work of this blade are one of reason i take this sundang.
David> Pesi is flat,,,like golok or pedang. can u tell me why u asking that?
Amuk> ceremonial, or symbol status?
Moro, malay,Borneo,,,,?

kai · 11th March 2009, 11:05 PM

Hello karset,

Nice catch! What are the measurements of this blade?

Once again, I don't think that exiling keris sundang to the main forum does make any sense (and even less to separate Indo from Moro sundang...). It doesn't seem like the main forum will need to close down due to inactivity if all Moro kris threads move over here either - keris unite, I say!

Regards,
Kai

kai · 12th March 2009, 02:17 AM

Hello Amuk,

Quote:

From the photos, my first guess is that the blade was made for a lesser notable (possibly ceremonial) from Sabah/North Borneo. Age probably 18thC or earlier.

Hmm, IMVHO the scroll work is way to fancy for a 19th century piece, much less for a 18th c. piece (regardless of origin, I suppose).

I also have no clue what features would suggest a Sabah origin? AFAIK, most blades from there are obviously of traditional Sulu style with a notable minority of Mindanao style blades thrown in (trade as well as Illanum connection). Anyway, users of these kris would be Moro with close (political and economical) ties to the Sulu sultanate. Not much room for ideosyncratic styles, I guess. Even early collected pieces from western collections with provenance from other regions on Borneo (mainly Kalimantan Timur and Brunei) seem to exhibit conservative Moro styles rather than unique variations.

OTOH, the base features of this blade include several details which do not seem to be Moro at all (will try to edit a pic to show the details I mean). My bet would be Sumatra but I wouldn't rule out the Peninsula either.

Incidentally, the closest to the greneng of this piece seem to be exhibited by Sharial's keris:

More pics here!
Discussion on this keris.

Cleaning and etching this keris sundang blade may yield additional insights into this mystery, I guess.

Regards,
Kai

karset · 12th March 2009, 02:22 PM

blade 51 cm / 20 inch.
Pesi 7cm / 3 inch.
Ganja 10cm/ 4 inch.
I will clean the blade,,and go back, hope i dont distrubing.

karset · 16th March 2009, 06:27 PM

Kai,,,yes i will "warang" this blade,but the rain could be inpredictable at this time..im not comtable using spotlight or hair dryer.
when i first see this blade i think its bali or malay?
the pesi wich flat like "golok" or "pedang" make me remember Singosari, and some old stuff like pajajaran kudi ,,.look like kul buntet got same feel old jawatimur

Now im planing to make a temporary handle and sheath while waiting rain season stop.

Sorry for my english.

Battara · 17th March 2009, 01:46 AM

I just got to this thread and I agree with Kai. It is not Bali but perhaps Sabah or Malay. The rectangular tang in cross section makes me think Sabah. The reason is that the Moro kris have this same tang construction but not the style of ganga or front section. I might say Moro influenced but not Moro.

The okir on the blade looks like a mix of Sulu and Malay design, leaning toward Malay.

karset · 18th March 2009, 04:53 PM

here pic of "wadingdang",somehow make me remember pedang suduk,,,,
Alam Shah,,your minangkabau are beatiful,,,,
i use bali handle"jaglir" at pic that show the shape of bottom ganja,,only for help to take pic.

11th March 2009, 03:32 AM	#1
karset Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 48	sundang i like this sundang, but i dont know anything,,,region?,dapur(model)?, any comment will make me happy,,, Attached Images

16th March 2009, 06:27 PM	#9
karset Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 48	thanks Kai,,,yes i will "warang" this blade,but the rain could be inpredictable at this time..im not comtable using spotlight or hair dryer. when i first see this blade i think its bali or malay? the pesi wich flat like "golok" or "pedang" make me remember Singosari, and some old stuff like pajajaran kudi ,,.look like kul buntet got same feel old jawatimur Now im planing to make a temporary handle and sheath while waiting rain season stop. Sorry for my english.

18th March 2009, 04:53 PM	#11
karset Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 48	wadingdang here pic of "wadingdang",somehow make me remember pedang suduk,,,, Alam Shah,,your minangkabau are beatiful,,,, i use bali handle"jaglir" at pic that show the shape of bottom ganja,,only for help to take pic. Attached Images

11th March 2009, 04:43 AM	#2
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,781	Hello, not my field but look's very interesting, I've never seen a "greneng"-form like this by a Moro-blade. Seems to be a good and old blade. Other members can tell you more for sure. Maybe try to clean it like in some threads described. And sorry, I think it's the wrong place for a philippine blade. Regards, sajen

11th March 2009, 08:31 AM	#4
Amuk Murugul Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Kaboejoetan Galoenggoeng Mélben Posts: 460	Hullo everybody, From the photos, my first guess is that the blade was made for a lesser notable (possibly ceremonial) from Sabah/North Borneo. Age probably 18thC or earlier. Best,

11th March 2009, 12:54 PM	#5
karset Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 48	Sajen> Greneng work of this blade are one of reason i take this sundang. David> Pesi is flat,,,like golok or pedang. can u tell me why u asking that? Amuk> ceremonial, or symbol status? Moro, malay,Borneo,,,,?

11th March 2009, 11:05 PM	#6
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,254	Hello karset, Nice catch! What are the measurements of this blade? Once again, I don't think that exiling keris sundang to the main forum does make any sense (and even less to separate Indo from Moro sundang...). It doesn't seem like the main forum will need to close down due to inactivity if all Moro kris threads move over here either - keris unite, I say! Regards, Kai

12th March 2009, 02:22 PM	#8
karset Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 48	blade 51 cm / 20 inch. Pesi 7cm / 3 inch. Ganja 10cm/ 4 inch. I will clean the blade,,and go back, hope i dont distrubing.

17th March 2009, 01:46 AM	#10
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,220	I just got to this thread and I agree with Kai. It is not Bali but perhaps Sabah or Malay. The rectangular tang in cross section makes me think Sabah. The reason is that the Moro kris have this same tang construction but not the style of ganga or front section. I might say Moro influenced but not Moro. The okir on the blade looks like a mix of Sulu and Malay design, leaning toward Malay.