Spear Heads: Whatizthey?

trenchwarfare · 12th April 2015, 03:24 AM

Picked these up at the show today. Whatever they are? The single blades are 13" long, the doubles, 12". Didn't measure the width. The owner thought they were African. To me the doubles look Indian, and the singles look Filipino? Are they spear heads with the sockets cut off, or are they made as these "things". They both lock together, in the perpendicular position. Any ideas?

drac2k · 12th April 2015, 07:33 AM

Great looking spear heads, especially the double pronged ones which I also would have guessed to be Indo-Persian and the other 2 to be Indonesian until I saw that they could be screwed into a lance.I once had a Mogul hunting spear that took interchangeable heads, with the same screw post configuration.

trenchwarfare · 13th April 2015, 04:45 AM

Thanks drak. Guess nobody else has any ideas, or opinions?

drac2k · 13th April 2015, 05:55 AM

Just really neat items ;did you pick them up at a militaria show, an antique show, a gun show, etc ? Was there a story attached; what did the seller think?

trenchwarfare · 13th April 2015, 06:32 AM

Gun show. No story, seller thought they were African. The guy has been in the gun, antique, and military surplus business for 50 years. No telling when, or where he got them. They are certainly different.

Timo Nieminen · 13th April 2015, 12:23 PM

Indian. The bidents look very Indian, and the only threaded spears I've seen have been Indian or modern Western. The singles don't look non-Indian.

Roland_M · 13th April 2015, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trenchwarfare

Picked these up at the show today. Whatever they are? The single blades are 13" long, the doubles, 12". Didn't measure the width. The owner thought they were African. To me the doubles look Indian, and the singles look Filipino? Are they spear heads with the sockets cut off, or are they made as these "things". They both lock together, in the perpendicular position. Any ideas?

Hello,
how about african sword money ? These spear heads are never intended for fighting.
The screw thread is too short and can get loose during usage.

Kind regards Roland

trenchwarfare · 13th April 2015, 07:19 PM

Hadn't thought about the currency aspect. Many regions of the world have, or have had weapon designed money.

Shakethetrees · 14th April 2015, 05:22 AM

I think the currency theory is a little far fetched, as the currency "weapons" that I've examined are basically roughed out shapes, with any mounting hardware or fine fitting being non-existent.

Currency weapons are made by blacksmiths for use in a defined area. The drilling and tapping tools require tools for their manufacture that are not just found or made easily. They are fairly technical, with measurements and shaping needing more precision tooling.

If you've ever done any amount of threading (male or female) you know the difficulty, with chipped and broken taps and dies being commonplace.
Replacement for a primitive shop would be next to impossible!

I think they are either parade/ceremonial weapons coming from a fairly technical society.

Also, the bright red rust tells me that they are probably recent.

trenchwarfare · 14th April 2015, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shakethetrees

I think the currency theory is a little far fetched, as the currency "weapons" that I've examined are basically roughed out shapes, with any mounting hardware or fine fitting being non-existent.

Currency weapons are made by blacksmiths for use in a defined area. The drilling and tapping tools require tools for their manufacture that are not just found or made easily. They are fairly technical, with measurements and shaping needing more precision tooling.

If you've ever done any amount of threading (male or female) you know the difficulty, with chipped and broken taps and dies being commonplace.
Replacement for a primitive shop would be next to impossible!

I think they are either parade/ceremonial weapons coming from a fairly technical society.

Also, the bright red rust tells me that they are probably recent.

I don't know where, or when they are from. They both exhibit very deep pitting. Old or new, I don't know. The red rust, only translates to recent neglect.

kronckew · 14th April 2015, 10:30 AM

the last half of 19c india had railroads, maintenance shops for the RR would have had the tools and machinery to service the locomotives, including lathes, milling machines, casting equipment etc. and trained local labour to use them. the first railroad was in 1853, by 1895 they were making their own rr locomotives and cars, and exporting them to the brits in africa.

even today the craftsmen of northern pakistan make precise working copies of modern (and older) firearms arms requiring precision components, as well as the ammunition to feed them, using quite primitive equipment. i wouldn't want to fire one myself, not trusting their heat treating skills that much, but their use against our own troops seems to indicate they work satisfactoraly.

12th April 2015, 03:24 AM	#1
trenchwarfare Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 385	Spear Heads: Whatizthey? Picked these up at the show today. Whatever they are? The single blades are 13" long, the doubles, 12". Didn't measure the width. The owner thought they were African. To me the doubles look Indian, and the singles look Filipino? Are they spear heads with the sockets cut off, or are they made as these "things". They both lock together, in the perpendicular position. Any ideas? Attached Images

12th April 2015, 07:33 AM	#2
drac2k Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 1,230	Great looking spear heads, especially the double pronged ones which I also would have guessed to be Indo-Persian and the other 2 to be Indonesian until I saw that they could be screwed into a lance.I once had a Mogul hunting spear that took interchangeable heads, with the same screw post configuration.

13th April 2015, 04:45 AM	#3
trenchwarfare Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 385	Thanks drak. Guess nobody else has any ideas, or opinions?

13th April 2015, 05:55 AM	#4
drac2k Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 1,230	Just really neat items ;did you pick them up at a militaria show, an antique show, a gun show, etc ? Was there a story attached; what did the seller think?

13th April 2015, 06:32 AM	#5
trenchwarfare Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 385	Gun show. No story, seller thought they were African. The guy has been in the gun, antique, and military surplus business for 50 years. No telling when, or where he got them. They are certainly different.

13th April 2015, 12:23 PM	#6
Timo Nieminen Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 422	Indian. The bidents look very Indian, and the only threaded spears I've seen have been Indian or modern Western. The singles don't look non-Indian.

13th April 2015, 07:19 PM	#8
trenchwarfare Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 385	Hadn't thought about the currency aspect. Many regions of the world have, or have had weapon designed money.

14th April 2015, 05:22 AM	#9
Shakethetrees Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Louisiana Posts: 363	I think the currency theory is a little far fetched, as the currency "weapons" that I've examined are basically roughed out shapes, with any mounting hardware or fine fitting being non-existent. Currency weapons are made by blacksmiths for use in a defined area. The drilling and tapping tools require tools for their manufacture that are not just found or made easily. They are fairly technical, with measurements and shaping needing more precision tooling. If you've ever done any amount of threading (male or female) you know the difficulty, with chipped and broken taps and dies being commonplace. Replacement for a primitive shop would be next to impossible! I think they are either parade/ceremonial weapons coming from a fairly technical society. Also, the bright red rust tells me that they are probably recent.

14th April 2015, 10:30 AM	#11
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,183	the last half of 19c india had railroads, maintenance shops for the RR would have had the tools and machinery to service the locomotives, including lathes, milling machines, casting equipment etc. and trained local labour to use them. the first railroad was in 1853, by 1895 they were making their own rr locomotives and cars, and exporting them to the brits in africa. even today the craftsmen of northern pakistan make precise working copies of modern (and older) firearms arms requiring precision components, as well as the ammunition to feed them, using quite primitive equipment. i wouldn't want to fire one myself, not trusting their heat treating skills that much, but their use against our own troops seems to indicate they work satisfactoraly.