1533: A Wonderful and Rich Source of All Sorts of Early-16th C. Arms and Armor!

Matchlock · 15th September 2012, 04:32 PM

Hi all,

Here is a painting by Melchior Feselen, Bavaria: The Battle of Alesia, dated 1533 (Bavarian National Museum Munich).

Depicted in utmost detail, against a breathtaking landscape and sky, are almost all sorts of early-16th c. arms, armor and accouterments: tents, cannon, edged weapons like two-handed swords and Katzbalgers, Landsknechts in their full and rich costume and equipment amidst fierce fighting, hafted weapons such as pikes and halberds, early matchlock and hand-ignited fireams (arquebuses) and various forms of flasks, powder horns and earliest bandoliers, horsemen in full armor, etc.

Enjoy!

I have a 7 MB high-rez scan of that painting that can be zoomified to study each tiny detail!
Anbody wishing to receive that scan, send me a private message together with your email but make sure that your email system can handle a 7 MB attachment!

Plesase also see:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=15724

Best,
Michael

kronckew · 15th September 2012, 06:50 PM

i don't recall what calibre firelocks gaius julius caesar used at alesia in 52 b.c. his artillery looks a bit outdated for the period. the hooped cannon was obsolete by 60 b.c., surely. i like the roman tents inside the circumvallation. the double eagle byzantine flags were a nice touch. made me feel like i'd been there. should have added a few aquila for caesar's 12 legions...

nice depiction of the weapons of the period it was painted tho.

a slightly more accurate photo taken of vercengetorix's surrender, found on an ancient but serviceable sd card found at alisia.

Matchlock · 16th September 2012, 04:04 PM

Hi Kronckew,

I too think it's a pity that cannon, halberds and cameras were common in Caesar's period but the photo you posted seems to be the only one hitherto recorded!

Best,
Michael

kronckew · 17th September 2012, 09:19 AM

yes, the ancient 'photographers' can often make mistakes based on their own current knowledge and lack of knowledge of history and we must be vigilant in not making any assumptions based on graphic images of the past which may have been distorted by time and dramatic license of the creator of the image.

i am currently reading an arthurian novel set around the end of the 4th century a.d. as the romans are starting to abandon britain. somehow a primus pilus who is also a bladesmith, and has a collection of arms from around the empire, has never heard of a spatha for cavalry use and of ring maile armour, and saddles. he's just 'discovered' a barbarian 'frankish' saddle with strange dangly bits for putting the feet in, which he has assumed are for assisting a cripple to mount horse, and i suspect he will eventually discover they can be useful for a heavily armoured cataphract to mount his horse as well as allowing better deployment of his weapons. the facts of course must not interfere with the story. he's about to make a longer sword than a gladius for the first time, out of the unknown metal 'steel' he found in a sky-stone. i will make an educated guess he will call it excalibur. his use of an african compound bow, as well as welsh archers with 200lb. pull yew longbows i can almost accept tho.

p.s. - the ancient sd card from 53 b.c. survived only because it was packed in silicone grease, surrounded by dessicant, and sealed in a stainless steel container hidden in a roman catacomb where it remained dry and undiscovered until found by an early 20th c. explorer. i guess not many people used such a procedure.

Matchlock · 17th September 2012, 07:30 PM

I really feel honored for getting to know such a universally educated and gfited historian and technician as well, Kronckew!
Your profound knowledge and well-based proofs should really shake those obsolete theories and history books to their very foundations!

My compliments,
Michael

kronckew · 17th September 2012, 07:57 PM

i accept the laurels with the spirit intended.

i ride my chariot thru the triumphal arch with my slave at my ear, muttering continuously "remember, thou art but mortal".

he of course will be fed to the lampreys tonight.

kronckew · 17th September 2012, 08:03 PM

there were more photos recovered from that sd, which also show the ancient digital cameras in use by the romans during the dacian wars.

nothing new under the sun

p.s. - that was a large capacity sd, it at one time held all the photos from caesar thru theodosius. sadly some had deteriorated and did not survive.

15th September 2012, 04:32 PM	#1
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	1533: A Wonderful and Rich Source of All Sorts of Early-16th C. Arms and Armor! Hi all, Here is a painting by Melchior Feselen, Bavaria: The Battle of Alesia, dated 1533 (Bavarian National Museum Munich). Depicted in utmost detail, against a breathtaking landscape and sky, are almost all sorts of early-16th c. arms, armor and accouterments: tents, cannon, edged weapons like two-handed swords and Katzbalgers, Landsknechts in their full and rich costume and equipment amidst fierce fighting, hafted weapons such as pikes and halberds, early matchlock and hand-ignited fireams (arquebuses) and various forms of flasks, powder horns and earliest bandoliers, horsemen in full armor, etc. Enjoy! I have a 7 MB high-rez scan of that painting that can be zoomified to study each tiny detail! Anbody wishing to receive that scan, send me a private message together with your email but make sure that your email system can handle a 7 MB attachment! Plesase also see: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=15724 Best, Michael Attached Images Last edited by Matchlock; 15th September 2012 at 06:06 PM.

15th September 2012, 06:50 PM	#2
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,184	i don't recall what calibre firelocks gaius julius caesar used at alesia in 52 b.c. his artillery looks a bit outdated for the period. the hooped cannon was obsolete by 60 b.c., surely. i like the roman tents inside the circumvallation. the double eagle byzantine flags were a nice touch. made me feel like i'd been there. should have added a few aquila for caesar's 12 legions... nice depiction of the weapons of the period it was painted tho. a slightly more accurate photo taken of vercengetorix's surrender, found on an ancient but serviceable sd card found at alisia. Attached Images

17th September 2012, 07:57 PM	#6
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,184	i accept the laurels with the spirit intended. i ride my chariot thru the triumphal arch with my slave at my ear, muttering continuously "remember, thou art but mortal". he of course will be fed to the lampreys tonight. Last edited by kronckew; 17th September 2012 at 08:13 PM.

17th September 2012, 08:03 PM	#7
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,184	there were more photos recovered from that sd, which also show the ancient digital cameras in use by the romans during the dacian wars. nothing new under the sun p.s. - that was a large capacity sd, it at one time held all the photos from caesar thru theodosius. sadly some had deteriorated and did not survive. Last edited by kronckew; 17th September 2012 at 08:18 PM.

16th September 2012, 04:04 PM	#3
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Hi Kronckew, I too think it's a pity that cannon, halberds and cameras were common in Caesar's period but the photo you posted seems to be the only one hitherto recorded! Best, Michael

17th September 2012, 09:19 AM	#4
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,184	yes, the ancient 'photographers' can often make mistakes based on their own current knowledge and lack of knowledge of history and we must be vigilant in not making any assumptions based on graphic images of the past which may have been distorted by time and dramatic license of the creator of the image. i am currently reading an arthurian novel set around the end of the 4th century a.d. as the romans are starting to abandon britain. somehow a primus pilus who is also a bladesmith, and has a collection of arms from around the empire, has never heard of a spatha for cavalry use and of ring maile armour, and saddles. he's just 'discovered' a barbarian 'frankish' saddle with strange dangly bits for putting the feet in, which he has assumed are for assisting a cripple to mount horse, and i suspect he will eventually discover they can be useful for a heavily armoured cataphract to mount his horse as well as allowing better deployment of his weapons. the facts of course must not interfere with the story. he's about to make a longer sword than a gladius for the first time, out of the unknown metal 'steel' he found in a sky-stone. i will make an educated guess he will call it excalibur. his use of an african compound bow, as well as welsh archers with 200lb. pull yew longbows i can almost accept tho. p.s. - the ancient sd card from 53 b.c. survived only because it was packed in silicone grease, surrounded by dessicant, and sealed in a stainless steel container hidden in a roman catacomb where it remained dry and undiscovered until found by an early 20th c. explorer. i guess not many people used such a procedure.

17th September 2012, 07:30 PM	#5
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	I really feel honored for getting to know such a universally educated and gfited historian and technician as well, Kronckew! Your profound knowledge and well-based proofs should really shake those obsolete theories and history books to their very foundations! My compliments, Michael