Yet Another Moro Kriss

Jazz · 21st July 2007, 11:56 PM

Hi. First of all, I would like to say how lucky I am to find such an incredibly great forum! I've been lurking here for awhile, and just recently join. As far as collection goes, what I have are mostly replicas, purchased from K-Bud and various flea markets. What meager Moro weapons I have in my possession are nothing to write home about; mostly from turn of the 20th century, ones that goes for cheap on a good day.

Well, my luck finally change for the better a few weeks ago. As I was searching ebay, I came across this item:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...0%3D%26fvi%3D1

and was surprised that it went on for 4 days without anyone buying it since it has a Buy-it-Now option. My first impression was perhaps it was fake, but I decided to jump on it anyway since it was within my price range.. After receiving the kriss from the seller,

again, I was pleasantly surprise to find out that not only was this kriss authentic, it's a rare form unlike what I've seen before. It might not seem a lot compared to the extravagant krisses that some of the collectors in this forum have in their inventory, but for someone like me that is more into the historical aspects of these weapons, acquiring this piece was exilarating to say the least.

I will now attempt, to my best knowledge, explain why I think this kriss is 'rare'. At first glance, I thought it was a Sulu piece, but upon closer examination, it's actually Maranao. What is so intriguing about this is the fact that it's an older Maranao blade (1700's) based on the elephant trunk, which was made cruder compared to the later ones (1800's to 20th century).

to be continued...

David · 22nd July 2007, 03:52 AM

Welcome to the forum Jazz. Very nice kris, especially for that money...however, i sincerely doubt it is older then late 19thC.
For some reason none of your close-ups appear, but the profile of this blade is nothing like the "archaic" kris from the 1700s.
The inlays look nice. As for the inscription, perhaps you could re-post your close-ups. Very doubtful it would be in Jawi though. The scale pattern is not one we haven't seen before and i am sure you will see a few posted by other forumites. I don't see anything particularly rare about the kakatau, but again i can't see the close-ups.
It certainly is a fine weapon and i would be excited to own it myself (especially at that price), but i am afraid it is not particularly odd or rare. Congrats on a great buy though.

Ian · 22nd July 2007, 03:56 AM

Hi Jazz:

I must agree with David. This looks like a late 19th/early 20th C kris with an even more recent hilt. The hilt was probably made in Mindanao, but the blade may be Sulu.

Nice kris at a very good price. Congratulations and welcome to the Forum.

Ian.

Battara · 22nd July 2007, 06:48 AM

I agree with Dave and Ian. I also suspect that the hilt wrap is a later replacement for missing bands - it is missing a silver ferrule to at least match the silver top. Try your closeups again please.

Jazz · 22nd July 2007, 09:05 AM

sorry guys, I was in a rush. Here's the continuation:

Also, another telltale sign would be the ukkil decorations on the handle.

Going back to this kriss's age: my assertion of it being from the 1700's were based on the size of the sword, which is 'diminutive' compared to the later ones; and more importantly, the rare transitional pommel style which is a cross between the 'ancient' type cockatoo and the more 'modern' type which tends to have a longer beak and flared out plume, albeit narrower in total width.

to be continued...

Jazz · 22nd July 2007, 09:06 AM

continuation:

It's possible that the handle is not original to the blade, but I would dare say that's highly unlikely. Another evidence that this was an older sword is how the length of the handle is smaller than the more 'recent' krisses. Yes, there's a possibility that it could be a boy's kriss, but one must remember that people a few hundred years ago were slightly smaller than their present day counterpart, not unlike us compared to our predessesor in this country a century or so ago.

Now here's the best part: the inlays on the blade. I have seen some of the more common designs and patterns in this forum, but I can't find a single pattern similar to the one on this kriss. I'm preplexed as to what it signify, half guessing that perhaps it represents the scales of a snake.

But what's throwing me off are what's on the tip of these inlays. Please note that it's not in mirror image on both sides, a common trait with decorative inlays, rather it's two different designs altogether.

I'm not really familiar with the native writings of that era, but i'm half guessing it's either jawi, and if it is, it's someone's name (original owner? sword's name?), OR some type of symbol related to the beliefs of the culture at that time. Another curve ball is the fact that if the blade represent a snake in motion, and the inlays are scale, then why would the handle represent a bird's head, as we now take for granted? As far as I'm concerned, there are no mythological creature of this type in Moroland, a half snake/half bird creature. This is where I would like to hear everyone's opinion. From what I've seen and read from previous posts, there seems to be no shortage of intelligent members in this forum. Perhaps, by posting this here, it could be analyze or even identified by the house experts. I would really appreciate on whatever else comments that any of you can add.

Otherwise, I think that it's a real neat sword, far cry from the replica and cheap swords that I ever own. Although this kriss is much lighter, I'm just amazed at the balance of this deadly weapon, still sharp from all these centuries. I realize that this is not really my field of expertise, so whatever I've written are purely my opinion, but nevertheless, I hope I haven't offended anyone with my writing. Thank you for reading my first post.

kai · 23rd July 2007, 01:31 AM

Welcome to the forum, Jazz!

Quote:

At first glance, I thought it was a Sulu piece, but upon closer examination, it's actually Maranao. What is so intriguing about this is the fact that it's an older Maranao blade (1700's) based on the elephant trunk, which was made cruder compared to the later ones (1800's to 20th century).

I do believe that this really is Sulu style rather than Maranao: AFAIK, that "Maranao bulge" isn't decisive - it needs to be accompagnied with a mouth parallel to the gangya to point to a Maranao origin. I'd guess it to be 100-150 years old.

Even with the non-traditionally rewrapped hilt a bargain. Congrats!

Regards,
Kai

21st July 2007, 11:56 PM	#1
Jazz Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 44	Yet Another Moro Kriss Hi. First of all, I would like to say how lucky I am to find such an incredibly great forum! I've been lurking here for awhile, and just recently join. As far as collection goes, what I have are mostly replicas, purchased from K-Bud and various flea markets. What meager Moro weapons I have in my possession are nothing to write home about; mostly from turn of the 20th century, ones that goes for cheap on a good day. Well, my luck finally change for the better a few weeks ago. As I was searching ebay, I came across this item: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...0%3D%26fvi%3D1 and was surprised that it went on for 4 days without anyone buying it since it has a Buy-it-Now option. My first impression was perhaps it was fake, but I decided to jump on it anyway since it was within my price range.. After receiving the kriss from the seller, again, I was pleasantly surprise to find out that not only was this kriss authentic, it's a rare form unlike what I've seen before. It might not seem a lot compared to the extravagant krisses that some of the collectors in this forum have in their inventory, but for someone like me that is more into the historical aspects of these weapons, acquiring this piece was exilarating to say the least. I will now attempt, to my best knowledge, explain why I think this kriss is 'rare'. At first glance, I thought it was a Sulu piece, but upon closer examination, it's actually Maranao. What is so intriguing about this is the fact that it's an older Maranao blade (1700's) based on the elephant trunk, which was made cruder compared to the later ones (1800's to 20th century). to be continued... Last edited by Jazz; 22nd July 2007 at 08:59 AM. Reason: edited for pictures and post length

22nd July 2007, 03:52 AM	#2
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,124	Welcome to the forum Jazz. Very nice kris, especially for that money...however, i sincerely doubt it is older then late 19thC. For some reason none of your close-ups appear, but the profile of this blade is nothing like the "archaic" kris from the 1700s. The inlays look nice. As for the inscription, perhaps you could re-post your close-ups. Very doubtful it would be in Jawi though. The scale pattern is not one we haven't seen before and i am sure you will see a few posted by other forumites. I don't see anything particularly rare about the kakatau, but again i can't see the close-ups. It certainly is a fine weapon and i would be excited to own it myself (especially at that price), but i am afraid it is not particularly odd or rare. Congrats on a great buy though. Last edited by David; 22nd July 2007 at 08:14 AM. Reason: spelling!

22nd July 2007, 03:56 AM	#3
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,200	Hi Jazz: I must agree with David. This looks like a late 19th/early 20th C kris with an even more recent hilt. The hilt was probably made in Mindanao, but the blade may be Sulu. Nice kris at a very good price. Congratulations and welcome to the Forum. Ian.

22nd July 2007, 06:48 AM	#4
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,221	I agree with Dave and Ian. I also suspect that the hilt wrap is a later replacement for missing bands - it is missing a silver ferrule to at least match the silver top. Try your closeups again please.

22nd July 2007, 09:05 AM	#5
Jazz Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 44	sorry guys, I was in a rush. Here's the continuation: Also, another telltale sign would be the ukkil decorations on the handle. Going back to this kriss's age: my assertion of it being from the 1700's were based on the size of the sword, which is 'diminutive' compared to the later ones; and more importantly, the rare transitional pommel style which is a cross between the 'ancient' type cockatoo and the more 'modern' type which tends to have a longer beak and flared out plume, albeit narrower in total width. to be continued...

22nd July 2007, 09:06 AM	#6
Jazz Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 44	continuation: It's possible that the handle is not original to the blade, but I would dare say that's highly unlikely. Another evidence that this was an older sword is how the length of the handle is smaller than the more 'recent' krisses. Yes, there's a possibility that it could be a boy's kriss, but one must remember that people a few hundred years ago were slightly smaller than their present day counterpart, not unlike us compared to our predessesor in this country a century or so ago. Now here's the best part: the inlays on the blade. I have seen some of the more common designs and patterns in this forum, but I can't find a single pattern similar to the one on this kriss. I'm preplexed as to what it signify, half guessing that perhaps it represents the scales of a snake. But what's throwing me off are what's on the tip of these inlays. Please note that it's not in mirror image on both sides, a common trait with decorative inlays, rather it's two different designs altogether. I'm not really familiar with the native writings of that era, but i'm half guessing it's either jawi, and if it is, it's someone's name (original owner? sword's name?), OR some type of symbol related to the beliefs of the culture at that time. Another curve ball is the fact that if the blade represent a snake in motion, and the inlays are scale, then why would the handle represent a bird's head, as we now take for granted? As far as I'm concerned, there are no mythological creature of this type in Moroland, a half snake/half bird creature. This is where I would like to hear everyone's opinion. From what I've seen and read from previous posts, there seems to be no shortage of intelligent members in this forum. Perhaps, by posting this here, it could be analyze or even identified by the house experts. I would really appreciate on whatever else comments that any of you can add. Otherwise, I think that it's a real neat sword, far cry from the replica and cheap swords that I ever own. Although this kriss is much lighter, I'm just amazed at the balance of this deadly weapon, still sharp from all these centuries. I realize that this is not really my field of expertise, so whatever I've written are purely my opinion, but nevertheless, I hope I haven't offended anyone with my writing. Thank you for reading my first post.