Help to identify this African(?) knife

shayde78 · 12th August 2017, 03:00 AM

I've had this about a year, and still don't know for sure if it represents a known style/form of knife. I learned that the script is Arabic, in the Moroccan or Algerian dialect, and approximately reads, "be merciful to the ones around you [neighbors]".

Both sides of the hilt are adorned with metal. The back of the sheath is simple leather. On the reverse from the script is a depiction of an elephant. This is the strongest indication to me it is for a tourist that would view an elephant as exotic.

For scale, the squares on the chessboard are 2"x2"

So, any feedback on the form, and is it one that represents a legitimate knife style from a particular region? As always, thank you for your insights

kahnjar1 · 12th August 2017, 05:01 AM

Hi Shayde,
I do not recognise the particular type of knife, but the silverwork looks to be Yemeni or South Western Arabian. Nice piece......I like it very much. Others no doubt will comment in due course.
Stu

shayde78 · 12th August 2017, 05:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

Hi Shayde,
I do not recognise the particular type of knife, but the silverwork looks to be Yemeni or South Western Arabian. Nice piece......I like it very much. Others no doubt will comment in due course.
Stu

Thanks, Kahnjar. I appreciate the feedback.
Can I assume it is actual silver, then?

kahnjar1 · 12th August 2017, 06:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shayde78

Thanks, Kahnjar. I appreciate the feedback.
Can I assume it is actual silver, then?

It is likely to be low grade silver I think, but the only way to be sure is to have it checked by a reputable jeweller.
Stu

Bob A · 12th August 2017, 07:09 AM

Yemen was my first guess. I've seen silver work from Afghanistan and regions north of there that seemed similar, to my eye. Generally the stone most often seen from those northern regions is carnelian, though.
The elephant looks to be Indian, but who knows?

shayde78 · 15th August 2017, 07:22 PM

Thank you Bob and Stu.

The elephant does look more Indian than African, but making that distinction presumes a level of artistic accuracy that may not be warranted.

I am wondering if the 6-pointed star could provide some clues. I know there is some debate as to why this image appears on blades across cultures. The consensus seems to be it was used as a proofing mark in Europe, and was subsequently copied elsewhere to make lesser blades seem of higher quality. However, it seems to me that any Arabic blade after the 1940s would be unlikely to have this image. Do you think that is a fair claim? Although, the inscription (if my translation is accurate) suggests peaceful coexistence, so that could undermine my own assertion.

One more thing, I am attaching an image of what appears to be a coin on the sheath. It is 5-sided, but it may have been cut into that shape. Does this coin help with identifying?

shayde78 · 4th July 2021, 04:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shayde78

I learned that the script is Arabic, in the Moroccan or Algerian dialect, and approximately reads, "be merciful to the ones around you [neighbors]".

Any help with translating this inscription? I never got feedback from anyone on this site about this, and am uncertain if the initial translation suggested to me holds true.
Thanks!

Battara · 5th July 2021, 07:54 PM

Well what ever it says, I will agree on the Yemen (Oman?) attribution with the Seal of Solomon. This style of silver filigree work is indeed what you find in Yemen with that type of leather work on back.

A possibility is that the blade might be a trade blade from elsewhere from Africa (Sudan?) or maybe India. In both places the elephant is a good omen and the script and Seal of Solomon may have been inscribed later.

Unfortunately I don't read Arabic, but I would move away from Morocco or Algeria with that form of silver filigree.

Certainly a unique and wonderful piece - thanks for posting this. Again zukran!

Kubur · 6th July 2021, 08:06 AM

Hi Shayde,

I didn't see your thread.

I think you got a lot of feedback, if you want a good translation you should ask directly to Kiwatek.

As Jim, Michael and Ibrahim said, it is a Yemeni knife, no mystery about that. The date on the coin is consistant with the knife, around 1950.

Some jambiya have Arabic inscriptions, with surats or poetry, little stars, people and animals. The elephant is not a mystery either it is related to the surat of the elephant, either it is just an African elephant, Sudan / Erythrea are just near Yemen.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...=jambiya+stars

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...=jambiya+stars

The only mystery to me is the blade, looks like African, maybe from Sudan.
It make sense, many Ethiopian blades were reused in Yemen.

Best,
Kubur

shayde78 · 12th July 2021, 02:48 AM

Thank you, Battara and Kabur! Ill be sure to reach out to Kiwatek.
Thanks again,
-Rob

kwiatek · 9th August 2021, 04:38 PM

I am far from sure, but I think this is, slightly misspelled,

ارجع لحولك

irja' li-hawlaka

This is the name of a popular song in the Yemen. These pieces seem to be mostly inscribed with the texts of poetry and songs. Please ask Ibrahim if he agreees and how he would translate it

12th August 2017, 03:00 AM	#1
shayde78 Member Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 445	Help to identify this African(?) knife I've had this about a year, and still don't know for sure if it represents a known style/form of knife. I learned that the script is Arabic, in the Moroccan or Algerian dialect, and approximately reads, "be merciful to the ones around you [neighbors]". Both sides of the hilt are adorned with metal. The back of the sheath is simple leather. On the reverse from the script is a depiction of an elephant. This is the strongest indication to me it is for a tourist that would view an elephant as exotic. For scale, the squares on the chessboard are 2"x2" So, any feedback on the form, and is it one that represents a legitimate knife style from a particular region? As always, thank you for your insights Attached Images Last edited by shayde78; 12th August 2017 at 05:26 AM.

15th August 2017, 07:22 PM	#6
shayde78 Member Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 445	Thank you Bob and Stu. The elephant does look more Indian than African, but making that distinction presumes a level of artistic accuracy that may not be warranted. I am wondering if the 6-pointed star could provide some clues. I know there is some debate as to why this image appears on blades across cultures. The consensus seems to be it was used as a proofing mark in Europe, and was subsequently copied elsewhere to make lesser blades seem of higher quality. However, it seems to me that any Arabic blade after the 1940s would be unlikely to have this image. Do you think that is a fair claim? Although, the inscription (if my translation is accurate) suggests peaceful coexistence, so that could undermine my own assertion. One more thing, I am attaching an image of what appears to be a coin on the sheath. It is 5-sided, but it may have been cut into that shape. Does this coin help with identifying? Attached Images

12th August 2017, 05:01 AM	#2
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,739	Hi Shayde, I do not recognise the particular type of knife, but the silverwork looks to be Yemeni or South Western Arabian. Nice piece......I like it very much. Others no doubt will comment in due course. Stu

12th August 2017, 07:09 AM	#5
Bob A Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 427	Yemen was my first guess. I've seen silver work from Afghanistan and regions north of there that seemed similar, to my eye. Generally the stone most often seen from those northern regions is carnelian, though. The elephant looks to be Indian, but who knows?

5th July 2021, 07:54 PM	#8
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,220	Well what ever it says, I will agree on the Yemen (Oman?) attribution with the Seal of Solomon. This style of silver filigree work is indeed what you find in Yemen with that type of leather work on back. A possibility is that the blade might be a trade blade from elsewhere from Africa (Sudan?) or maybe India. In both places the elephant is a good omen and the script and Seal of Solomon may have been inscribed later. Unfortunately I don't read Arabic, but I would move away from Morocco or Algeria with that form of silver filigree. Certainly a unique and wonderful piece - thanks for posting this. Again zukran!

6th July 2021, 08:06 AM	#9
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	Hi Shayde, I didn't see your thread. I think you got a lot of feedback, if you want a good translation you should ask directly to Kiwatek. As Jim, Michael and Ibrahim said, it is a Yemeni knife, no mystery about that. The date on the coin is consistant with the knife, around 1950. Some jambiya have Arabic inscriptions, with surats or poetry, little stars, people and animals. The elephant is not a mystery either it is related to the surat of the elephant, either it is just an African elephant, Sudan / Erythrea are just near Yemen. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...=jambiya+stars http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...=jambiya+stars The only mystery to me is the blade, looks like African, maybe from Sudan. It make sense, many Ethiopian blades were reused in Yemen. Best, Kubur

12th July 2021, 02:48 AM	#10
shayde78 Member Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 445	Thank you, Battara and Kabur! Ill be sure to reach out to Kiwatek. Thanks again, -Rob

9th August 2021, 04:38 PM	#11
kwiatek Member Join Date: May 2019 Posts: 153	I am far from sure, but I think this is, slightly misspelled, ارجع لحولك irja' li-hawlaka This is the name of a popular song in the Yemen. These pieces seem to be mostly inscribed with the texts of poetry and songs. Please ask Ibrahim if he agreees and how he would translate it