Sumatran pedang for comment.

Athanase · 20th February 2018, 02:50 PM

Hello,

Here is my birthday present received a few days ago.
It has some points in common (at the handle) with a pedang of palembang hinterlands posted a few days ago, but the shape of the blade is very different.
The blade is very wide at its base (1,5cm) but especially it has a Kembang Kacang and a very nice pamor that looks like pamor "Udan mas" of keris.
There is some remaining red paint at the base of the floral part of the handle.
The sheath seems a little more recent than the rest of the sword.

kai · 20th February 2018, 06:19 PM

Hello Séverin,

Quote:

Here is my birthday present received a few days ago.

Congrats, that's a neat catch! And my best birthday wishes!

Quote:

It has some points in common (at the handle) with a pedang of palembang hinterlands posted a few days ago, but the shape of the blade is very different.

I'm fairly sure this it not Rawas since the pommel shape is not matching. Highly carved Rawas hilts look different, too (cp. the attached pic from the other thread ).

Quote:

The blade is very wide at its base (1,5cm) but especially it has a Kembang Kacang and a very nice pamor that looks like pamor "Udan mas" of keris.

This pedang variant has usually been associated with southern Sumatra, possibly Palembang.

In a recent thread, I believed at least a subset might originate from northern Malaya (Kelantan/Pattani); there seem to be some other leads, too. I'm still researching this topic. BTW, mine example has complex surface-manipulated pamor, too!

Quote:

There is some remaining red paint at the base of the floral part of the handle.

I reckon the darker grip part wasn't painted (braided wire work partly missing)? Do you have any examples of the typical Palembang lacquer work? How does this painted pommel compare with the former?

Regards,
Kai

Sajen · 20th February 2018, 06:37 PM

Hello Severin,

just my feeling and like this a guess, I think it's from Sunda but can't be sure. I've seen similar blade shapes, special with kembang kacang from Sunda. And I've never seen pamor udan mas by weapons from Sumatra or Malaysia. Very nice sword by the way!!

Best regards,
Detlef

kai · 20th February 2018, 07:02 PM

Hello Detlef,

Yes, Sunda is one of the leads I'm looking into - maybe Amuk Murugul would be kind enough to contribute some insights?

Regards,
Kai

Gustav · 20th February 2018, 10:35 PM

A very nice Pedang.

I have a Palembang Keris with quite similar Udan Mas style pamor, except for it has an Odo2, so not three indentations in a row.

The way how cutting edge becomes thick just before the first "tooth" (which I am used to call Ri Pandan) of Jenggot on that Pedang (if I see it correctly, another shot of exactly that feature would be helpful) is typical for region around Palembang.

Athanase · 21st February 2018, 11:32 AM

"Kai : - I reckon the darker grip part wasn't painted (braided wire work partly missing)? Do you have any examples of the typical Palembang lacquer work? How does this painted pommel compare with the former?"

Yes it misses a part of the wire (2 wires of iron / silver? / other ?? twisted).
Yes only the part under the "flower" is paint, not the floral motif.
Sheath doesn't seem painted but rather covered with a colored varnish. The wood itself seems naturally already a little colored.

Athanase · 26th February 2018, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gustav

A very nice Pedang.

I have a Palembang Keris with quite similar Udan Mas style pamor, except for it has an Odo2, so not three indentations in a row.

Hello Gustav,
I don't understand this sentence

what do you mean by "Odo2" ??

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gustav

The way how cutting edge becomes thick just before the first "tooth" (which I am used to call Ri Pandan) of Jenggot on that Pedang (if I see it correctly, another shot of exactly that feature would be helpful) is typical for region around Palembang.

Sorry but I don't understand what point of view you want for the picture. Profile? The profile, the view of the face of the cutting edge?

kai · 26th February 2018, 08:52 AM

Hello Séverin,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gustav

I have a Palembang Keris with quite similar Udan Mas style pamor, except for it has an Odo2, so not three indentations in a row.

Gustav's keris has a ridge (ada-ada) along the center of the blade - because of this design, the dots are along the sides only...

Regards,
Kai

Amuk Murugul · 24th February 2018, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

Hello Detlef,

Yes, Sunda is one of the leads I'm looking into - maybe Amuk Murugul would be kind enough to contribute some insights?

Regards,
Kai

Hullo everybody,

Apologies for the late response.
I was unaware until alerted to this post.

My cursory guesstimate:
Pedang Toebles (cut-thrust).
Blade: made according to eastern Soenda (Galoeh) protocol.
Handle: stylised (vegetal) Makara/Naga-Paksi.
Pamor: not an issue under traditional Soenda values; 'whatever comes out of the melting-pot’, not built-in design.
Probably late-18thC. - early-19thC Tjaroeban/Tjirebon.
Hope this helps.

Best,

kai · 25th February 2018, 10:41 PM

Hullo AM,

Thanks for your comments!

Quote:

Pamor: not an issue under traditional Soenda values; 'whatever comes out of the melting-pot’, not built-in design.

However, this is clearly not a random pamor: this pattern is achieved only by intentional surface manipulation (i. e. boring holes and flattening the billet).

There also seem to be other examples of Sunda blades with "designed" pamor types. Are these just exceptions?

Regards,
Kai

Athanase · 21st February 2018, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

Hello Severin,

just my feeling and like this a guess, I think it's from Sunda but can't be sure. I've seen similar blade shapes, special with kembang kacang from Sunda. And I've never seen pamor udan mas by weapons from Sumatra or Malaysia. Very nice sword by the way!!

Best regards,
Detlef

I never seen Sunda sword whith kembang kacang, do you have examples to show?
Until now I had only seen kacang kembang on Sumatra's sabers.
I have another Sumatra sword with a kacang kembang (very badly done) and a label indicating Aceh as coming from, but strangely its handle is reminding the Batak handle

Sajen · 21st February 2018, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Athanase

I never seen Sunda sword whith kembang kacang, do you have examples to show?

Hello Severin,

sadly I am not able to post pictures from this sword since it's not mine but the owner is a member of this forum, I will give the member a hint, maybe he will post pictures from his sword.

Best regards,
Detlef

Sajen · 21st February 2018, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

..sadly I am not able to post pictures from this sword since it's not mine but the owner is a member of this forum, I will give the member a hint, maybe he will post pictures from his sword.

After contacting my friend I am allowed to show pictures from the blade, the pictures are from the auction. It's for sure a Sunda sword.

20th February 2018, 02:50 PM	#1
Athanase Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Paris (France) Posts: 408	Sumatran pedang for comment. Hello, Here is my birthday present received a few days ago. It has some points in common (at the handle) with a pedang of palembang hinterlands posted a few days ago, but the shape of the blade is very different. The blade is very wide at its base (1,5cm) but especially it has a Kembang Kacang and a very nice pamor that looks like pamor "Udan mas" of keris. There is some remaining red paint at the base of the floral part of the handle. The sheath seems a little more recent than the rest of the sword. Attached Images

20th February 2018, 06:37 PM	#3
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,783	Hello Severin, just my feeling and like this a guess, I think it's from Sunda but can't be sure. I've seen similar blade shapes, special with kembang kacang from Sunda. And I've never seen pamor udan mas by weapons from Sumatra or Malaysia. Very nice sword by the way!! Best regards, Detlef

20th February 2018, 07:02 PM	#4
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,254	Hello Detlef, Yes, Sunda is one of the leads I'm looking into - maybe Amuk Murugul would be kind enough to contribute some insights? Regards, Kai

20th February 2018, 10:35 PM	#5
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,249	A very nice Pedang. I have a Palembang Keris with quite similar Udan Mas style pamor, except for it has an Odo2, so not three indentations in a row. The way how cutting edge becomes thick just before the first "tooth" (which I am used to call Ri Pandan) of Jenggot on that Pedang (if I see it correctly, another shot of exactly that feature would be helpful) is typical for region around Palembang.

21st February 2018, 11:32 AM	#6
Athanase Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Paris (France) Posts: 408	"Kai : - I reckon the darker grip part wasn't painted (braided wire work partly missing)? Do you have any examples of the typical Palembang lacquer work? How does this painted pommel compare with the former?" Yes it misses a part of the wire (2 wires of iron / silver? / other ?? twisted). Yes only the part under the "flower" is paint, not the floral motif. Sheath doesn't seem painted but rather covered with a colored varnish. The wood itself seems naturally already a little colored.