Looking for Information on this Kris.

[Gavin Nugent]

Hi guys, I know I am in the right spot to ask for more information about what I have here. Talking to other forumites via email has prompted me to bring this little fella out of the display cabinets, I beleive it to be a Javanese Kris from about 1860. I welcome everyones knowledgable input into learning more about it and it's history.

thanks in advance

Gavin

[Alam Shah]

This lovely fittings looks Malay, to me.
The blade had been repaired. The 'belalai gajah' (or kembang kacang, the curled area at the base of the blade) seems like an add-on work, the weld lines does not flow towards the curl. The flow of the 'luks' (waves), seems 'disturbed'. Number of luks...hmmm... 10 or 11 (?). Overall, an authentic old piece.

[David]

I am not convinced that the belalai gajah is an add-on, but there does seem to be something strange going on there. Possibly a good traditional washing might reveal more.
Certainly not Javanese as Shahrial has said. Malay, possibly Sulawesi???
I am curious why you suspect about 1860 as a possible date. It is certainly possible, but it is a bit more exacting than i think most would venture. Do you have some sort of provenance that has lead you to this date?
BTW, i like the dress, especially the brass pendokok.. Is the toe of the sheath made of horn?

[Alam Shah]

Originally Posted by David

I am not convinced that the belalai gajah is an add-on, but there does seem to be something strange going on there. Possibly a good traditional washing might reveal more.

What I meant is... it had one, but broke and repaired with an add-on to replace the broken portion.

Originally Posted by David

Certainly not Javanese as Shahrial has said. Malay, possibly Sulawesi???

I don't think it's Sulawesi... I'm leaning more toward Riau-Lingga.

Originally Posted by David

I am curious why you suspect about 1860 as a possible date. It is certainly possible, but it is a bit more exacting than i think most would venture. Do you have some sort of provenance that has lead you to this date?
...

Yes, I'm curious too, about the date...

[Battara]

I was also thinking Bugis, especially in the wranga (top part of thet scabbard) , the hilt, and the selut (the cup that holds the hilt).

BTW - the hilt is on backwards

[Gavin Nugent]

Originally Posted by Alam Shah

This lovely fittings looks Malay, to me.
The blade had been repaired. The 'belalai gajah' (or kembang kacang, the curled area at the base of the blade) seems like an add-on work, the weld lines does not flow towards the curl. The flow of the 'luks' (waves), seems 'disturbed'. Number of luks...hmmm... 10 or 11 (?). Overall, an authentic old piece.

Hi Alam Shah, Thank you for your reply. I don't think the blade has been repaired, I have included another 2 photos showing the detail of the Ganja, what is shown in the first photo of the original posting is what I would just call an age spot. I don't think from holding it and looking at this Kris, that the Belalai Gajah is an add on, again see photo, but then I don't know much of the forging processes of knives. I can say that there is amazing detail, I'd even go so far as to say that I can see the Elephants eyes, though not shown very well in the photos. With regards to the luks, I too am confused on this matter, if I was to just count them I would say 10, but if I included the head of the Belalai Gajah as the first wave, I would say 11.

Originally Posted by David

I am not convinced that the belalai gajah is an add-on, but there does seem to be something strange going on there. Possibly a good traditional washing might reveal more.
Certainly not Javanese as Shahrial has said. Malay, possibly Sulawesi???
I am curious why you suspect about 1860 as a possible date. It is certainly possible, but it is a bit more exacting than i think most would venture. Do you have some sort of provenance that has lead you to this date?
BTW, i like the dress, especially the brass pendokok.. Is the toe of the sheath made of horn?

Thank you for you reply and interest too David. Given the concensus on it's origins I will look further with what references have been supplied. As for dating this piece to 1860ish, I have only used an almost identical Kris as a point of reference with this, it is sitting in a local arms collection and knowing that the collector does do some home work on his items I used this as a starting point, some have placed it as early as the 14th century, but all I am told is taken with a grain of salt until my own research can confirm or deny any claims. I am guessing that a traditional cleaning might reveal more but I am quite taken by the old patina it carries and in particular the somewhat green hue this blade has in places. I too like the pendokok, for some reason it reminds me of the great Angkor architecture. The toe of the sheath is horn too David.

Originally Posted by Battara

I was also thinking Bugis, especially in the wranga (top part of thet scabbard) , the hilt, and the selut (the cup that holds the hilt).

BTW - the hilt is on backwards

Thank you for your input too Battara. With regards to the hilt being on backwards, you are correct but given the dimensions of the wrangka, if the hilt was on the way you suggest, I do feel the piece as a whole would look odd, out of balance and not in proportion, images I have seen of this style of Kris have this particular type of hilt sitting at a right angle from the wrangka.

Everyones help thus far has been fabulous, thank you.