can you please ID

terry1956 · 12th November 2010, 01:23 PM

Hi, can anyone please help ID these two infantry briguets. one is marked with a B stamped on the blade and a further stamp on the hand guard which is too hard to make up. The second is also stamped on the blade and looks like a set of V,s its very hard to make out. any help would be good, michael

fernando · 12th November 2010, 01:57 PM

Hi Michael,
Are there no marks on these briquets?
... like on the guards or knuckle guards?

terry1956 · 12th November 2010, 02:28 PM

Hi, there is one mark on the knuckle guard but its been badly rubbed and i can,t make it out. this 2nd mark is on the briguet with the letter B stamped on the blade, it also as a less rounded guard then the 2nd briguet. michael

terry1956 · 13th November 2010, 02:56 PM

Hi with a better set of glasses I have found a stamped number 3 on the underside of the handle of the weapon with a B mark on the blade, also a stamped letter M or N also on the underside of the handle. anyone have any ideas. michael

fernando · 14th November 2010, 05:20 PM

C'mon guys.
Pull out your knowledge and give Michael some coments about these two pieces.

Jim McDougall · 14th November 2010, 07:25 PM

It seems the lowly briquet, one of the commonest of 'other ranks' weapons in volume, for that very reason is often the most difficult to effectively identify. These cast brass hilt hangers seem to have come about in around the end of the 18th century and were used by virtually every major power as a cheap, servicable sidearm. They were known readily as the French 'briquet' and copied by Great Britain as artillery gunners swords, used also by Russia, Sweden, Denmark, Germany in the various states especially Prussia, Spain, and probably others I have not named.
These were in use throughout the 19th century as far as is known, most likely in colonial circumstances after they became obsolete with regulation weapons in these armies.

Since British blades typically had the board of ordnance marks on the blade, that can be eliminated....but these markings, most likely issue and controllers stamps it would be hard to attribute. There is always the possibility these are later reissues, incredible as it might seem as there were in various circumstances probably tons of these type weapons around.
In the early 20th century, Francis Bannerman bought these huge stockpiles of weapons, with many simply being scrapped. I believe later, after the 'antique' phenomenon became more widely developed, they even began producing copies of these simple forms.

In my opinion, to identify these beyond what they are, simple briquets, is a pretty tall order without more identifiable markings, but the photos and descriptions of markings are much appreciated. Perhaps the unusual quillon terminal on one might offer clues.No need to reply, just wanted to add comments.

12th November 2010, 01:23 PM	#1
terry1956 Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: yeovil, somerset, uk Posts: 75	can you please ID Hi, can anyone please help ID these two infantry briguets. one is marked with a B stamped on the blade and a further stamp on the hand guard which is too hard to make up. The second is also stamped on the blade and looks like a set of V,s its very hard to make out. any help would be good, michael

12th November 2010, 02:28 PM	#3
terry1956 Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: yeovil, somerset, uk Posts: 75	in answer Hi, there is one mark on the knuckle guard but its been badly rubbed and i can,t make it out. this 2nd mark is on the briguet with the letter B stamped on the blade, it also as a less rounded guard then the 2nd briguet. michael

13th November 2010, 02:56 PM	#4
terry1956 Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: yeovil, somerset, uk Posts: 75	update on markings Hi with a better set of glasses I have found a stamped number 3 on the underside of the handle of the weapon with a B mark on the blade, also a stamped letter M or N also on the underside of the handle. anyone have any ideas. michael

12th November 2010, 01:57 PM	#2
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Hi Michael, Are there no marks on these briquets? ... like on the guards or knuckle guards?

14th November 2010, 05:20 PM	#5
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	C'mon guys. Pull out your knowledge and give Michael some coments about these two pieces.

14th November 2010, 07:25 PM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,896	It seems the lowly briquet, one of the commonest of 'other ranks' weapons in volume, for that very reason is often the most difficult to effectively identify. These cast brass hilt hangers seem to have come about in around the end of the 18th century and were used by virtually every major power as a cheap, servicable sidearm. They were known readily as the French 'briquet' and copied by Great Britain as artillery gunners swords, used also by Russia, Sweden, Denmark, Germany in the various states especially Prussia, Spain, and probably others I have not named. These were in use throughout the 19th century as far as is known, most likely in colonial circumstances after they became obsolete with regulation weapons in these armies. Since British blades typically had the board of ordnance marks on the blade, that can be eliminated....but these markings, most likely issue and controllers stamps it would be hard to attribute. There is always the possibility these are later reissues, incredible as it might seem as there were in various circumstances probably tons of these type weapons around. In the early 20th century, Francis Bannerman bought these huge stockpiles of weapons, with many simply being scrapped. I believe later, after the 'antique' phenomenon became more widely developed, they even began producing copies of these simple forms. In my opinion, to identify these beyond what they are, simple briquets, is a pretty tall order without more identifiable markings, but the photos and descriptions of markings are much appreciated. Perhaps the unusual quillon terminal on one might offer clues.No need to reply, just wanted to add comments.