Keris Bugis discussion

[mariusgmioc]

Hello,
I am opening a new thread hoping to learn more about the new Keris I just purchased. I have been told that the blade is about 18th century but I am not convinced, so your opinions would be welcomed. I am also intrigued by the bent human figure of the hilt. Any idea who or what may it symbolize?!

[Sajen]

Hello Marius,

the blade of your keris seems to be old but I believe that the scabbard and hilt are very recent. Could it be that you have bought it from a Balinese dealer? The hilt is in the style of Bone keris, see for example here: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=toraja
I never have seen such a keris in silver, all I have seen has had golden colour, worked from brass or gilded silver or even thin gold foil.
The workmaship is very good by your keris but like said I think very recent and probably worked on Bali. The figure I don't know by name but I think that it is a Hindu figure.

Regards,
Detlef

[Jean]

I fully agree with Detlef, and the new hilt (copied from old Sulawesi or Sumbawa royal krisses) may depict Arjuna, one of the Pandawa brothers.
Regards

[mariusgmioc]

Thank you very much for your feedback!
I believe the dealer is from Java but I am not sure.

[kerisbiz]

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

Hello,
I am opening a new thread hoping to learn more about the new Keris I just purchased. I have been told that the blade is about 18th century but I am not convinced, so your opinions would be welcomed. I am also intrigued by the bent human figure of the hilt. Any idea who or what may it symbolize?!

Just see the material and warangka, it's not bugis. You can found keris like this in Sumbawa, bali, and madura.

[Jean]

Originally Posted by kerisbiz

Just see the material and warangka, it's not bugis. You can found keris like this in Sumbawa, bali, and madura.

Hello Krisbiz,
The blade seems Bugis or at least Bugis-influenced to me according to the triangular pamor pattern at the base and shape of the blade & ganja, any other opinion?
Regards

[David]

I dunno. I don't really see a Bugis blade here either. That very pronounced, brick-like gandik is not what i generally see in Bugis keris. The overall dhapur seems wrongg to me for Bugis work. However, neither does this appear to be a Bali or Maduran keris if Kerisbiz was referring to the blade only when he made his last comment.
If he was referring to the dress, this is certainly not dress that is stylistically Balinese or Maduran, though i do understand that there is a possibility, as Detlef suggested, that the craftsmanship of such a contemporary manufacture might be Balinese. Certainly not the form though.

[A. G. Maisey]

It seems to be the opinion of the bulk of indigenous keris authorities in S.E. Asia that genuine Bugis keris blades have flat faces and sharply angled decline (gusen, kusen) to cutting edge from those faces.

If I say:- "genuine Bugis" I'm talking about Sulawesi.

All through S.E.Asia, in the Peninsula, Sumatra, along the North Coast of Jawa, in Lombok, in the further Eastern Islands, in scattered small islands throughout the Archipelago we can find keris blades that have the overall appearance (pawakan) of genuine Bugis blades, but that lack the flat faces and gusen of the genuine Bugis blade.

Does this blade have flat faces?

Does this blade have sharply angled gusen?

Is it genuine Bugis, or Bugis influenced?

In respect of the silver work.

Kota Gede near Jogjakarta in Central Jawa is, I believe, the biggest, most experienced, most productive manufacturer of silver work in Indonesia, quality ranges from work that is second to none to quality that is pretty rough.

Celuk in Bali is probably producer number two.

The other two major silver work producing centres are Kendari in Sulawesi and Kotagadhang in Sumatra. By all accounts these two centres do not produce quality that is the equal of Kota Gede and Celuk. I have not seen work that I know to have come from either of these two places.

There are silver workers in many other areas in Indonesia, but in my understanding, these small, stand-alone workshops are owned and staffed by men who are the inheritors of the skills of the major silver working centres.

I doubt that it is possible to guess where the silver work for this keris comes from. To my eye both hilt and scabbard, considered together, appear to be Celuk work, but realistically they could have been made anywhere.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

In respect of the silver work.

Kota Gede near Jogjakarta in Central Jawa is, I believe, the biggest, most experienced, most productive manufacturer of silver work in Indonesia, quality ranges from work that is second to none to quality that is pretty rough.

Celuk in Bali is probably producer number two.

The other two major silver work producing centres are Kendari in Sulawesi and Kotagadhang in Sumatra. By all accounts these two centres do not produce quality that is the equal of Kota Gede and Celuk. I have not seen work that I know to have come from either of these two places.

There are silver workers in many other areas in Indonesia, but in my understanding, these small, stand-alone workshops are owned and staffed by men who are the inheritors of the skills of the major silver working centres.

I doubt that it is possible to guess where the silver work for this keris comes from. To my eye both hilt and scabbard, considered together, appear to be Celuk work, but realistically they could have been made anywhere.

Hello Alan,

since Marius seems to be unsure from which place in Indonesia he have bought this keris I've done a little bit research by ebay and found that exactly this keris was sold from a well known dealer on Bali which you know as well so I am nearly sure that the silver work was done in Celuk.

Best regards,
Detlef

[Jean]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

In respect of the silver work.

Kota Gede near Jogjakarta in Central Jawa is, I believe, the biggest, most experienced, most productive manufacturer of silver work in Indonesia, quality ranges from work that is second to none to quality that is pretty rough.

Celuk in Bali is probably producer number two.

The other two major silver work producing centres are Kendari in Sulawesi and Kotagadhang in Sumatra. By all accounts these two centres do not produce quality that is the equal of Kota Gede and Celuk. I have not seen work that I know to have come from either of these two places.

Hello Alan,
I own this Bugis style kris supposedly from Sumatra with a very high quality silver scabbard (very thick and finely embossed). It was purchased in Jakarta more than 20 years ago and was not brand new at that time (however the blade is much older than the scabbard and it was stained in Solo as the pamor was indistinct).
Where would you expect that the silver scabbard was made?
Regards

[Jean]

Originally Posted by David

I dunno. I don't really see a Bugis blade here either. That very pronounced, brick-like gandik is not what i generally see in Bugis keris. The overall dhapur seems wrongg to me for Bugis work. However, neither does this appear to be a Bali or Maduran keris if Kerisbiz was referring to the blade only when he made his last comment.
.

Hello David,
If not Bugis/ Bugis-influenced, and not from Bali or Madura (I concur with that), what is the estimated origin or style of this blade then?
I agree with Alan that genuine Bugis blades from Sulawesi are supposed to have flat faces and gusen but from memory there are plenty of Bugis Sulawesi blades shown in the book from Ahmad Ubbé without these attributes.
Regards