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#1 |
Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 851
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Hello everybody,
When I bought this small sword, I first thought it was an asian-chinese sword ( especially for the shape of the brass guard, I received it and I think it is more an european hunting sword, Germany ? France ? 19th century ? sadly no inscriptions or stamps on the blade but the hilt is really fancy, bone or ivory with nice pattern ( made with ???) Can anybody help for a ''better scan'' ?! Kind regards Francky |
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#2 |
Member
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 143
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Nice. And mysterious. A 'chinoiserie' piece -(European in imagined Asian style)? Vietnamese?
Is the hilt on straight? |
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#3 |
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Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 851
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Hello,
Thank you for your message Jon, Yes the hilt is ''fixed'' and the different pieces seems to ''join'' good with each other. I don't think it's a composite dagger-sword... certainly an oriental influence for european people as you said ( orientalistes... ) |
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#4 |
Arms Historian
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
Posts: 9,896
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Interesting item, and the European 'hunting sword' idea is I think pretty much spot on. The hilt shape recalls the couteau de chasse hunting hangers of the 18th century, while the blade seems very much Chinese dao.
The decoration on the hilt is indeed chinoiserie (Chinese style) and while I am unsure may be of the plum blossom theme (which usually looked more like seaweed in these applications). Though the guard is very much like Chinese jian in style, in the 18th century Europeans, probably greatly inspired by the East Indies trade and the VOC eagerly looked for exotic styles in material culture and fashion. This of course extended to weaponry and such exotica in sword design was often termed 'Tonquinese' which actually meant indirectly 'Chinese' (in the west Tonkin meant N. Viet Nam while Cochin referred to the south). This derived from a mixture of the fact that the VOC had a factory in Tonkin (North Vietnam) until 1707 and later items actually produced in Peking were regarded in that context. To complicate matters some hilts were made using black shakudo motif, from the Japan points in the VOC network. Aylward (1945, p.57) notes..." the Company (VOC) brought over some Chinese workmen to Europe who produced in Amsterdam". This was of course in direct contact with Solingen, and it seems I have heard of other Chinese workers in East Europe as well. In the mid 18th century the famed 'pandour' units of Austrian and Hungarian armies favored the 'Oriental' look , which often used various Ottoman as well as other tribal fashions and weapons of such styling. This hilt style is close to that effect, but further with Chinese styling and apparently blade. Such exotic weaponry was very much status oriented and while not necessarily to these type units, it may well have been a gentlemans weapon alluding to them. On the other hand, the presence of a Chinese blade on this might move the possibility back to China, where the Qian Long emperor in the latter 18th century very much favored 'foreign' styling in sword hilts and perhaps this design was in that manner. Unique example with these possibilities. |
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#5 |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: California
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The blade doesn't look Chinese at all to me. The almost universal characteristic of the fullering on Chinese curved single-edged blades (sabers and the like) is that they begin a short distance ahead of the guard. The forte thus being flat, giving the blade a wedge shaped section in that area. This flat area may be just plain, or it may be fitted for a tunkou or a metal sleeve usually with a scalloped profile. A fuller that runs all the way back to the shoulders of the blade at the junction of the tang is not in keeping with the tradition.
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#6 |
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Location: California
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The decoration on the hilt is nowhere near any ornamental motif I've seen on either a Chinese or Vietnamese weapon.
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#7 |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: California
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Is the guard made "in the solid" or is there an elliptical mouth or opening where the blade comes out, to reveal a hollow center? Typically, a jian guard on a Qing-era hilt is hollow, to accept the end of the scabbard in order to achieve a weather-resistant fit. (coincidentally a similar fit is seen in the construction of later Ottoman kilij guards, although the sealing effect is negated somewhat by the dorsal slot on the throat of the scabbard to admit the curvature and contour of the blade)
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#8 | |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: California
Posts: 1,036
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#9 | |
Arms Historian
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
Posts: 9,896
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Perfectly illustrated and explained Philip! I see exactly what you mean. I wish I could think of where Ive seen something like this, seems like it was one of those Polish collection books which included not just Polish but other forms. I think possibly the Bashford Dean (1928) might have something as well but need to check ("European Court & Hunting Swords"). |
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