Katipunan sword?

[h0ll0wman]

I recently acquired this old blade. I am guessing it is an antique katipunan sword? I will post photos again once I restore it.

[xasterix]

Originally Posted by h0ll0wman

I recently acquired this old blade. I am guessing it is an antique katipunan sword? I will post photos again once I restore it.

it's probably 1890s, and while it likely existed already during the katipunan uprising, I believe it's more likely to have been used by the Spanish side. Imho better to call it late 1890s Central Luzon bolo.

[algrennathan]

Question. How did you know that these are pro Spanish pieces? Did they follow a certain pattern? It just doesn't make sense for them to deviate from existing patters or styles common that would identify them to be part of a secret organization. Lastly, where did you get your info?

Originally Posted by xasterix

it's probably 1890s, and while it likely existed already during the katipunan uprising, I believe it's more likely to have been used by the Spanish side. Imho better to call it late 1890s Central Luzon bolo.

[xasterix]

Originally Posted by algrennathan

Question. How did you know that these are pro Spanish pieces? Did they follow a certain pattern? It just doesn't make sense for them to deviate from existing patters or styles common that would identify them to be part of a secret organization. Lastly, where did you get your info?

Based on:

1. Facts mentioned in at least 3 books
2. Extensive research
3. Mentorship by PH blade experts
4. Analysis of available samples, especially those with marked provenance

[bathala]

Originally Posted by xasterix

Based on:

1. Facts mentioned in at least 3 books
2. Extensive research
3. Mentorship by PH blade experts
4. Analysis of available samples, especially those with marked provenance

I olso respectfully disagree. I know you will not share your sources and it is understandable. But on the opposite sideI have samples and have seen katipunan themed swords (like the fist and sun themed) have both s and d guards. I comes really who can afford or what style they want. I think to say that katipunan did not employ d guards is assuming they did not have money and of pure peasant stock which I beg to differ. They had different statuses in life (eg aguinaldo and bonifacio)Bonifacio. Attached pics are of common folks and one of the basi revolt. As you can see they seem to carry dguard matulis and bolos. As for me it would be more practical for me to have some kind of hand protection I one can afford for his weapon.

[xasterix]

Originally Posted by bathala

I olso respectfully disagree. I know you will not share your sources and it is understandable. But on the opposite sideI have samples and have seen katipunan themed swords (like the fist and sun themed) have both s and d guards. I comes really who can afford or what style they want. I think to say that katipunan did not employ d guards is assuming they did not have money and of pure peasant stock which I beg to differ. They had different statuses in life (eg aguinaldo and bonifacio)Bonifacio. Attached pics are of common folks and one of the basi revolt. As you can see they seem to carry dguard matulis and bolos. As for me it would be more practical for me to have some kind of hand protection I one can afford for his weapon.

1. The "pics" that you referenced are artist renditions of those eras, and are not actual pictures. Artist renditions aren't dependable or accurate especially when it comes to weapons. In fact when compared to available documentation, most renditions are wanting, or are way off-tangent in their depiction of blades and other cultural items.

2. If you'll check actual period pictures- studio ones, especially- you'll notice that the only ones with legit "Katipunan" blades- notably daggers with the sun etc symbol- are ranked officers, notably those who came from principalia class. Now take into account that many of the First Republic officers are defectors who used to be allied with the Spanish side. Even in First Republic era pics, what's being carried by foot soldiers aren't S- or D-guards, but rather guard-less or simple-guard fighting bolos.

3. In contrast, there are actual period photos of S- or D-guard bolos among the Spanish forces- particularly among their civilian-military faction, of whose ranked officers are from the Spanish-Filipino (mestizo, etc) families. Based on evidence alone, it's logical to assume that it's the Spanish side that wore these S- and D-guard bolos as standard-issue.

4. I don't think having hand protection is necessary in a battlefield situation, from the Filipinos' point of view. They were being worsted by the gun- and artillery- equipped Spaniards, then later on, the Americans. Hence it's impractical to issue D- and S-guard bolos to their foot soldiers.

5. I don't know how many times various historians mentioned how underequipped the 1896 Katipunan rebels were with regard to equipment. In fact foot soldiers had to resort to sharpened wooden spears. There was even a direct order by either Bonifacio or Aguinaldo for foot soldiers to use sharpened stakes instead if they didn't have bolos. This is a clear indicator that the Katipunan was not as rich as you perceive it to be.

[algrennathan]

Originally Posted by xasterix

Based on:

1. Facts mentioned in at least 3 books
2. Extensive research
3. Mentorship by PH blade experts
4. Analysis of available samples, especially those with marked provenance

Care to share your sources? It's just that it makes no sense to utilize a design that would easily identify them to be part of a subversive organization. I would understand for pieces that's from 1898 onwards since independence was already declared and by then the colonial government has already weakened greatly that they have little control on certain areas. Lastly, what was the basis of your research? Lastly, mentorship by blade experts doesn't seem to back it up since we don't know who these guys are. Are they learned individuals with credible background in this field? Hey, I can ask numerous town drunkards on blades and I can claim that I've been mentored by veteran researchers. Not being a troll here, it's just that it's kinda like you're giving us meat to eat without actually cooking it.

[Ian]

Hi RSWORD,

What a fascinating sword and in excellent condition! A few comments on the sword, its scabbard and inscriptions.

First, the dates you noted are too late for this to be a Katipunan sword--they fit with the time frame of the First Republic, and this is supported by reference to a US military entity.

Second, the sun and three stars is a motif that is from the Philippine flag and found at the hoist within a white equilateral triangle. The sun has eight rays representing the provinces that rose up against Spain. Those may be the provinces listed on the scabbard, but I can't see all of them.

Third, the date "January 15" does not coincide with any major political event that I can find. It is close to the promulgation of the Malolos Constitution (January 20, 1899) which created the First Philippine Republic. Perhaps a Filipino scholar has an answer.

Fourth, the mention of the 32nd US Volunteers on such a nationalistic item is very strange, and seems out of place because the Filipino-American War was still in progress in 1901.

Lastly, the origin of this sword. The scabbard with its heart-shaped belt hanger and snake head at the tip is probably from Apalit in the province of Pampanga.

[xasterix]

Ian, thanks for your kind words and support.

Originally Posted by RSWORD

I have an example to share to hopefully add to the overall discussion. The sword is a D-guard sword with a hilt very similar to the example shared in this post but with a more typical Filipino blade. The scabbard has a ton of iconography on it. First, at the very top of the scabbard it is dated 1901. Below that is a heart shaped belt loop with a sun face in a triangle with three stars/suns around it. Above that is a symbol I am not familiar with but looks like a tree of life. And more stars/suns around that. The body of the scabbard is marked with various provinces and names and what looks like a shooting sun or star marking. On the raised carved section in the lower half of the scabbard is the date January 15th in Spanish and then 32nd US Vols which stands for 32nd US Volunteers which served in the Philippines from 1898-1901. At the very bottom of the scabbard is a snake head. The sword and blade fit perfectly in this scabbard so definitely made for this blade and the iconography is strong and seems to be Katipunan in nature.

Great sword Rick- if I had the resources, I would definitely buy that! =)

I believe that this particular sword may be any of 3 things:

1. The sword of a Spanish-aligned military personnel (probably with significant rank) that defected to the First Republic. He brought his standard-issued sword with him as he defected, then had this populated with Katipunan symbols to declare his allegiance.

2. The sword of a principalia that supported / participated in the First Republic forces as a ranking officer.

3. A sword looted from a Spanish-aligned military personnel that fell in the Katipunan insurrection, then the new owner populated it with Katipunan symbols.

The American unit provenance on the sword may indicate that this sword was later acquired/looted by American forces, thus adding further to its history.