Afghan tribal sabre. Tulwar or Shamshir?

Tim Simmons · 19th September 2007, 03:02 PM

Not really my sort of thing, that's what happens when you drink beer while driving your PC.
I was seduced by the scabbard. The blade was quite rusty in small patches but you can see that the finish was at one time gleaming. It is not fancy steel but folded and well tempered steel with a typical soft light cavalry sabre tip. The whole thing has a tribal feel about it, the informal hilt decoration and especially the the untidy and after thought fullers, which spoil it a little for me. Making me feel almost unhappy about the purchase. However it feels very comfortable, light enough to wield for a prolonged period and fits my hand like a glove. We have seen the onion like design engraved emblem before? It is somewhere between a tulwar and a shamshir. The blade is 23mm wide not including the forte section. I think other members had a punt on it as well. I do not think it was a cheap buy

. Can anybody add more information?

Tim Simmons · 19th September 2007, 03:33 PM

Tim Simmons · 19th September 2007, 06:30 PM

This is an odd sword with quite a story to tell. All the pieces of the sword are old. The scabbard has been made to fit this blade or the blade has been made to fit the scabbard perhaps a bit of both. The hilt has been made larger by adding to steel rings formed by four half moon sections so to speak. All three parts have been together for a long time.These features make me think all the more that this is from a more remote tribal group of people where things like this are a luxury as well as a weapon. Goes with my Taimuri pray rug. I am rather dissapointed really but thats life.

spiral · 19th September 2007, 07:20 PM

mmmm I was watching that one when it was still cheap

the chape looked very Afghan border tribal to me.

Seen many similar on Khyber swords.

Is it missing rivit in handle? hard to tell in photo?

Spiral

rand · 19th September 2007, 07:56 PM

Hey Tim,

Very interesting Tulwar you have added to you collection of metal stories. Looking past the wear you see what was once a sumptuos sword. Its Indo-Muslim Panjabi-Rajput hilt (Rawson) overlaid with silver in a large floral design, its Indian shallow curved double edged tip (wootz?) watered blade in contrast to a well formed cartouche sparkling inlaid (?) with a high carot gold standing out against its silver clad hosting hilt.

For a description its a great example of wear via sharpening, its dramatic just how much this blade has been resharpened, also indicates possibly a solid wootz blade with no iron core. The floral decoration on the hilt a type of inlay where large lines are cut into the iron followed by silver hammered in in thick overlay with designs then chased into the silver (all worn off). In general the larger designs used to decorate the hilt indicate earlier work.

The cartouche looks familiar and will probably not be to hard to identify, maybe post a better photo of it. The fuller would have originally been well defined and symetrical, not the varied shape groove we see now caused by too little care taken while polishing or cleaning.

This sword has served its master for a long time......

rand

Tim Simmons · 19th September 2007, 07:57 PM

Yes a rivet is missing the hole was blocked with dirt. It goes through the blade and the other side of the handle. Does not seem to have had any effect on the blade handle fit. I cannot hide my disappointment but it is a real weapon. Circumstance and opportunity may be the inspiration of this sword rather than expression which is more my thing but that does not lessen the fact that some brave sole took the British Indian army on with it. Respect.

Tim Simmons · 19th September 2007, 08:03 PM

Well thank you Rand. I know nothing about this area except this blade is still able to nip my finger every time I examine it. I am starting to feel a little better.

19th September 2007, 03:02 PM	#1
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	Afghan tribal sabre. Tulwar or Shamshir? Not really my sort of thing, that's what happens when you drink beer while driving your PC. I was seduced by the scabbard. The blade was quite rusty in small patches but you can see that the finish was at one time gleaming. It is not fancy steel but folded and well tempered steel with a typical soft light cavalry sabre tip. The whole thing has a tribal feel about it, the informal hilt decoration and especially the the untidy and after thought fullers, which spoil it a little for me. Making me feel almost unhappy about the purchase. However it feels very comfortable, light enough to wield for a prolonged period and fits my hand like a glove. We have seen the onion like design engraved emblem before? It is somewhere between a tulwar and a shamshir. The blade is 23mm wide not including the forte section. I think other members had a punt on it as well. I do not think it was a cheap buy . Can anybody add more information? Last edited by Tim Simmons; 19th September 2007 at 03:31 PM.

19th September 2007, 03:33 PM	#2
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	Blade

19th September 2007, 06:30 PM	#3
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	This is an odd sword with quite a story to tell. All the pieces of the sword are old. The scabbard has been made to fit this blade or the blade has been made to fit the scabbard perhaps a bit of both. The hilt has been made larger by adding to steel rings formed by four half moon sections so to speak. All three parts have been together for a long time.These features make me think all the more that this is from a more remote tribal group of people where things like this are a luxury as well as a weapon. Goes with my Taimuri pray rug. I am rather dissapointed really but thats life. Last edited by Tim Simmons; 19th September 2007 at 07:12 PM.

19th September 2007, 07:56 PM	#5
rand Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 538	Tulwat with silver inlay Hey Tim, Very interesting Tulwar you have added to you collection of metal stories. Looking past the wear you see what was once a sumptuos sword. Its Indo-Muslim Panjabi-Rajput hilt (Rawson) overlaid with silver in a large floral design, its Indian shallow curved double edged tip (wootz?) watered blade in contrast to a well formed cartouche sparkling inlaid (?) with a high carot gold standing out against its silver clad hosting hilt. For a description its a great example of wear via sharpening, its dramatic just how much this blade has been resharpened, also indicates possibly a solid wootz blade with no iron core. The floral decoration on the hilt a type of inlay where large lines are cut into the iron followed by silver hammered in in thick overlay with designs then chased into the silver (all worn off). In general the larger designs used to decorate the hilt indicate earlier work. The cartouche looks familiar and will probably not be to hard to identify, maybe post a better photo of it. The fuller would have originally been well defined and symetrical, not the varied shape groove we see now caused by too little care taken while polishing or cleaning. This sword has served its master for a long time...... rand

19th September 2007, 07:20 PM	#4
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	mmmm I was watching that one when it was still cheap the chape looked very Afghan border tribal to me. Seen many similar on Khyber swords. Is it missing rivit in handle? hard to tell in photo? Spiral

19th September 2007, 07:57 PM	#6
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	Yes a rivet is missing the hole was blocked with dirt. It goes through the blade and the other side of the handle. Does not seem to have had any effect on the blade handle fit. I cannot hide my disappointment but it is a real weapon. Circumstance and opportunity may be the inspiration of this sword rather than expression which is more my thing but that does not lessen the fact that some brave sole took the British Indian army on with it. Respect.

19th September 2007, 08:03 PM	#7
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	Well thank you Rand. I know nothing about this area except this blade is still able to nip my finger every time I examine it. I am starting to feel a little better.