Saudi Saifs

[Lee]

Persian shamshir with Syrian silver work replacements made to Arab taste (or at least that is what a reliable dealer suggested). The older and more worn chape seems to be clearly Persian en suite with the blade:

[A.alnakkas]

Originally Posted by Lee

Persian shamshir with Syrian silver work replacements made to Arab taste (or at least that is what a reliable dealer suggested). The older and more worn chape seems to be clearly Persian en suite with the blade:

Hey Lee,

This is not a Syrian made saif. Rather its Saudi, likely made in Hayel. A nice early example. Syrians did not make this style, rather it is a more Saudi variation which timeline is part of my current research. I can probably identify who even made the dress :-)

[Lee]

Thank you for the enlightenment! I have always liked the aesthetic of this saif and felt that the workmanship was most admirable. In addition to the decoration, the whole blade and hilt feel very well balanced. Am I correct that the blade would have originated in Persia along with the chape? I looked to see if there is a maker's mark on the mounts, but recognized none. I would appreciate any further enlightenment you may be able to provide.

[A.alnakkas]

Hey Lee,

The blade is Persian yep. Thats not uncommon on these. The mounts are all Saudi (pre-Saudi state actually, an early 20th century piece as mentioned, likely made in Hail)

The maker is likely from Al-bani family. I have swords with similar patterns.

[A.alnakkas]

Originally Posted by Lee

Thank you for the enlightenment! I have always liked the aesthetic of this saif and felt that the workmanship was most admirable. In addition to the decoration, the whole blade and hilt feel very well balanced. Am I correct that the blade would have originated in Persia along with the chape? I looked to see if there is a maker's mark on the mounts, but recognized none. I would appreciate any further enlightenment you may be able to provide.

Lee,

Can you look at the spine of the scabbard? look at the chape and the locket.

[A.alnakkas]

The Syrian saif if made using Silver or bronze, then the scabbard design is usually in Ottoman style. Iron fitted ones seem to date to the 20th century and modern days. Though made traditionally so its authentic.

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

Hey Lee,

This is not a Syrian made saif. Rather its Saudi, likely made in Hayel. A nice early example. Syrians did not make this style, rather it is a more Saudi variation which timeline is part of my current research. I can probably identify who even made the dress :-)

Beautiful saif, are there any characteristics in particular which could be used to identify a Saudi saif or a Syrian saif. This saif is supposed to be Syrian, does anything about it potentially identify its origin?

[Jens Nordlunde]

Lee,
I cant comment on the sword, as I know too little about this area - but I do love your pictures :-).
Jens

[A.alnakkas]

Originally Posted by estcrh

Beautiful saif, are there any characteristics in particular which could be used to identify a Saudi saif or a Syrian saif. This saif is supposed to be Syrian, does anything about it potentially identify its origin?

Basically, the Syrian saif and the 'saudi' saif are identical except for finer details.

The Saudi saif (I call it Saudi out of convenience, its not Saudi... it predates the Saudi state) can be basically identified by having an Agrab, the chape having a diamond like decoration all over its length and it ends with a loop and a triangle shape. The carrying rings have swollen shaped fittings, these are constructed in a shape different from Syrian swords which often follow the Ottoman design. The hilt on Saudi saifs usually have a hilt pointing away from the quillons, though this is not 100% as some point straight and some point towards the quillons. This all depends on the maker but most makers I located use the pointing away design.

Basically, to sum up my research and not give much details before publishing... I'll state the obvious, the Saudis learnt to make these from the Syrians, my research will show how and who adopted and developed this Saudi design. And through what period. Anyways, as of yet, most Saudi saif design dates at best to the early 20th century. There is a type I call a proto saif which has elements of both Syrian and Saudi designs... But am not sure I want to speak much about this before I am done :-)))

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

Basically, the Syrian saif and the 'saudi' saif are identical except for finer details...................Basically, to sum up my research and not give much details before publishing...

Thanks for what you are able to reveal, hope to see your published work.

[estcrh]

Would I be right in thinking that this saif has a Persian blade with Saudi mounts?