Any new Lohar information?

Conogre · 15th February 2005, 06:33 AM

After seeing a comment in a yatagan thread about them, I was just wondering if anyone has aquired or learned anything about Lohars?
I have one of the folding types that Justin got into 100% operation the last time he was over, to the point that I now love it more than ever, very close to a "switch blade tomohawk" that opens with a snap of the wrist.
I've seen a couple of older peices purported to be the fixed blade type, but both were very small and light in comparison to the folder.
I was originally told that the folding Lohars were largely tourist (I saw another on Ebay the other day, by the way), but in all honesty, this piece has a true weapon-like feel, to the point that I find it difficult to believe.
When placed with my khyber knife and choora it seems every bit as lethal, and folded up would be easily concealable.

VANDOO · 16th February 2005, 06:09 AM

MOST LOHAR OF THE FOLDING TYPES HAVE BEEN NEWER AND DIDN'T APPEAR TO HAVE SEEN USE. BUT I HAVE SEEN A COUPLE WITH CARRIENG CASE (SCABBARD) THAT LOOKED LIKE THEY HAD BEEN CARRIED AND USED. I SUPPOSE THIS COULD BE BECAUSE THEY ARE COOL AND TOURISTS MOSTLY BUY NEW ONES AND BRING THEM HOME. IN THE AREAS WHERE THEY ARE USED IT WOULD BE MORE LIKELY TO FIND OLDER USED EXAMPLES IF ONE KNEW WHERE TO START LOOKING. I HAVE EXAMPLES OF 3 TYPES, ONE MADE OF ONE PIECE OF STEEL DOES NOT FOLD, ONE THE BLADE ONLY FOLDS AND ONE THAT FOLDS THE BLADE AND THE HANDLE AND IS VERY COMPACT. I THINK THE FIRST TYPE THE OLDEST TYPE, THE SECOND, SECOND OLDEST AND THE THIRD MOST RECENT. I COULD EASILY BE WRONG ON THIS AS I BASE IT ON WHEN THE DIFFERENT TYPES SHOWED UP IN THE LAST 40 + YEARS OR SO. I THINK THERE IS A OLD POST ON THEM SOMEWHERE ON THE FORUM ALSO.

Ferguson · 16th February 2005, 11:32 AM

I don't have any new information. Mine is just like the one that recently ended on ebay. It works smoothly and folds easily. One has to be careful when holding it in front of you at waist level with the point downwards. It is easy to hit the handle release that sticks out of the hilt. This causes a rapid swinging of the blade and shank down and back, and could result in an unexpected castration.

I have a feeling that the folding lohar are a beautiful curiosity. Yes, they would be definitly lethal in use. But if you swing it at an enemy and miss, you would likely activate the handle release, causing the point to pivot into your forearm.

Interesting and beautiful weapon though.

Steve

Andrew · 16th February 2005, 02:34 PM

Mike, here's an interesting thread from last summer that you may have missed.

http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/002389.html

Conogre · 16th February 2005, 06:03 PM

Thanks Andres...now THAT was a read, particularly if all the links were followed (amd, of course, I HAD yo! **grin**).
A couple of quick comments:
1)I think there's some real danger in dating a particular weapon or weapon type by when it first appeared or caught the attention of westerners, more particularly western collectors.....many remote areas and regions were simply to difficult to get to or transport items out of, thus remained "unknown".
2) I hesitate to sound authoritative after only having examined 2-3 specimens, which seems like simple common sense.
3) Using MY lohar as an example, you don't "unfold" it, you just flick your wrist and "poof", it's there, every bit as fast as a switchblade knife.
4) Likewise, I don't see how you could "accidently" close this piece, even in the heat of battle...CLOSING it is what takes the period of time indicated in the comments about opening it.
5) Mine is extremely robust, the same strength and weight as a Persian spiked tomohawk that I was fortunate to aquire, that's ironically valued at mediocre levels as a Persian piece, yet is among the most highly valued forms of it's 2nd incarnation, as a Native American tomohawk! (as in "be still my heart!! **grin**)
By the same token, my folder would definitely pierce a typical persian helmet or, even more importanly, pierce maille, which was worn, I believe right up to, and in rare instances, during the WWI period, possibly rarely, even later.
6) Having once had (and foolishly let go) a knife with exactly the same style and closing mechanisms as my folding Lohar, I do believe that the folders may well have been a Gypsy innovation, the same people who, IMHO raised the folding knife to its ultimate level as an effective, intimidating, scary weapon......the gypsies were notorious for keeping their innovations to themselves until they were found to be EXTREMELY profitable, were they not?
7) As to the mechanical aspect in comparison to the origination of the folders, I've found example of folding knives as far back as the Roman Empire, about 2,000 years ago.
8) and FINALLY, the idea that makes the most sense in the fixed blade styles (to me, anyway) is the origin as a goatherd/shepherd tool/weapon, used both for gathering fodder when needed and for fighting off beasts/thieves and such, small enough to be convenient and non-cumbersom yet large enough to save your life in an emergency....wouldn't this also fit into the "right of passage/manhood" thing in regrds to making your own as well?
Sorry about the length, but I'm sure I missed a LOT, considering the amount of new (at least to me) information I was just shown.

15th February 2005, 06:33 AM	#1
Conogre Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Clearwater, Florida Posts: 371	Any new Lohar information? After seeing a comment in a yatagan thread about them, I was just wondering if anyone has aquired or learned anything about Lohars? I have one of the folding types that Justin got into 100% operation the last time he was over, to the point that I now love it more than ever, very close to a "switch blade tomohawk" that opens with a snap of the wrist. I've seen a couple of older peices purported to be the fixed blade type, but both were very small and light in comparison to the folder. I was originally told that the folding Lohars were largely tourist (I saw another on Ebay the other day, by the way), but in all honesty, this piece has a true weapon-like feel, to the point that I find it difficult to believe. When placed with my khyber knife and choora it seems every bit as lethal, and folded up would be easily concealable.

16th February 2005, 06:09 AM	#2
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	MOST LOHAR OF THE FOLDING TYPES HAVE BEEN NEWER AND DIDN'T APPEAR TO HAVE SEEN USE. BUT I HAVE SEEN A COUPLE WITH CARRIENG CASE (SCABBARD) THAT LOOKED LIKE THEY HAD BEEN CARRIED AND USED. I SUPPOSE THIS COULD BE BECAUSE THEY ARE COOL AND TOURISTS MOSTLY BUY NEW ONES AND BRING THEM HOME. IN THE AREAS WHERE THEY ARE USED IT WOULD BE MORE LIKELY TO FIND OLDER USED EXAMPLES IF ONE KNEW WHERE TO START LOOKING. I HAVE EXAMPLES OF 3 TYPES, ONE MADE OF ONE PIECE OF STEEL DOES NOT FOLD, ONE THE BLADE ONLY FOLDS AND ONE THAT FOLDS THE BLADE AND THE HANDLE AND IS VERY COMPACT. I THINK THE FIRST TYPE THE OLDEST TYPE, THE SECOND, SECOND OLDEST AND THE THIRD MOST RECENT. I COULD EASILY BE WRONG ON THIS AS I BASE IT ON WHEN THE DIFFERENT TYPES SHOWED UP IN THE LAST 40 + YEARS OR SO. I THINK THERE IS A OLD POST ON THEM SOMEWHERE ON THE FORUM ALSO.

16th February 2005, 11:32 AM	#3
Ferguson Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kernersville, NC, USA Posts: 793	I don't have any new information. Mine is just like the one that recently ended on ebay. It works smoothly and folds easily. One has to be careful when holding it in front of you at waist level with the point downwards. It is easy to hit the handle release that sticks out of the hilt. This causes a rapid swinging of the blade and shank down and back, and could result in an unexpected castration. I have a feeling that the folding lohar are a beautiful curiosity. Yes, they would be definitly lethal in use. But if you swing it at an enemy and miss, you would likely activate the handle release, causing the point to pivot into your forearm. Interesting and beautiful weapon though. Steve

16th February 2005, 02:34 PM	#4
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	Mike, here's an interesting thread from last summer that you may have missed. http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/002389.html

16th February 2005, 06:03 PM	#5
Conogre Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Clearwater, Florida Posts: 371	Thanks Andres...now THAT was a read, particularly if all the links were followed (amd, of course, I HAD yo! grin). A couple of quick comments: 1)I think there's some real danger in dating a particular weapon or weapon type by when it first appeared or caught the attention of westerners, more particularly western collectors.....many remote areas and regions were simply to difficult to get to or transport items out of, thus remained "unknown". 2) I hesitate to sound authoritative after only having examined 2-3 specimens, which seems like simple common sense. 3) Using MY lohar as an example, you don't "unfold" it, you just flick your wrist and "poof", it's there, every bit as fast as a switchblade knife. 4) Likewise, I don't see how you could "accidently" close this piece, even in the heat of battle...CLOSING it is what takes the period of time indicated in the comments about opening it. 5) Mine is extremely robust, the same strength and weight as a Persian spiked tomohawk that I was fortunate to aquire, that's ironically valued at mediocre levels as a Persian piece, yet is among the most highly valued forms of it's 2nd incarnation, as a Native American tomohawk! (as in "be still my heart!! grin) By the same token, my folder would definitely pierce a typical persian helmet or, even more importanly, pierce maille, which was worn, I believe right up to, and in rare instances, during the WWI period, possibly rarely, even later. 6) Having once had (and foolishly let go) a knife with exactly the same style and closing mechanisms as my folding Lohar, I do believe that the folders may well have been a Gypsy innovation, the same people who, IMHO raised the folding knife to its ultimate level as an effective, intimidating, scary weapon......the gypsies were notorious for keeping their innovations to themselves until they were found to be EXTREMELY profitable, were they not? 7) As to the mechanical aspect in comparison to the origination of the folders, I've found example of folding knives as far back as the Roman Empire, about 2,000 years ago. 8) and FINALLY, the idea that makes the most sense in the fixed blade styles (to me, anyway) is the origin as a goatherd/shepherd tool/weapon, used both for gathering fodder when needed and for fighting off beasts/thieves and such, small enough to be convenient and non-cumbersom yet large enough to save your life in an emergency....wouldn't this also fit into the "right of passage/manhood" thing in regrds to making your own as well? Sorry about the length, but I'm sure I missed a LOT, considering the amount of new (at least to me) information I was just shown.