English sword/hanger - Parker Field & Sons

Valjhun · 28th September 2010, 04:30 PM

Hi,

Another little mystery.

A clearly english, rather short sword. Sharkskin grip, brass mounts, leather scabbard. Nice fullered blade with yelman.

Market: Parker Field & Sons 233 Holborn London

What exactly is this sword? Victorian era police hanger?

Thank you in advance!

Norman McCormick · 28th September 2010, 04:40 PM

Hi,
Correct, this would appear to be a Victorian police/prison officers hanger. Usually there is a locking clip on these, for obvious reasons, but this one doesn't have one that I can see. I suspect this might make it earlier rather than later Victorian. There will be Forumites better versed in these than I so hopefully a definitive answer will be forthcoming shortly. Nice piece.
Regards,
Norman.

Jim McDougall · 28th September 2010, 09:38 PM

Completely agree with Norman's assessment, which affirms what Valjhun had astutely suggested, it is a police or prison warders hanger, and from an extremely esoteric sector of arms collecting.

In "William Parker and Parker Field, Gunmakers" by Frederick Wilkinson ("Arms and Armour Annual"Vol. I ed. Robert Held, 1973, pp. 275-282) it describes the arms produced by these makers, who were select contractors supplying the police. Thier premises at 233 Holborn were actually along the road where criminals were taken from Newgate Prison to the gallows at Tyburn and halfway between Newgate and St. Giles Church.

The blade style on this is nearly identical to the example on p.276, fig. 3&4 and the blade at the tip has the same false edge on the back of the tip (this is not actually a yelman which is an expanded 'stepped' blade tip). The stirrup hilt is rounded, suggesting a later example (c. 1860s) but this hanger could date from 1850s to 1870s, there are not really enough examples represented to say for sure.

It seems the acid etched blade motif was quite varied, but the forte panel configuration seems more aligned with the style used c.1820s when they were using cavalry M1822 type sabres, and these outfitters supplied these units as well as police, who were in a sense auxiliary units. There were etched panels running longitudinally in the fuller used on earlier examples suggested by Mr. Wilkinson, but these seem more toward the 1860s in my experience. I have seen examples similar to Solingen imports by Luneschloss of that period with that type of panel it seems, but its been quite a few years, I know they were Civil War period.
As Parker Field were primarily gunsmiths, as well as outfitters I believe thier edged weapons blades and perhaps the entire swords were imported, with the firm name etched onto the blade.

Very nice hanger, and as noted, a most desirable item of arms esoterica.

All the best,
Jim

Ron Anderson · 29th September 2010, 02:38 AM

Hi Jim

A good observation regarding the forte panel configuration, which is like the earlier 1822 pattern infantry swords. In fact, I've seen this pattern on infantry/cavalry/General Officer's swords in the earlier part of the Victorian era too (1837-1845). I suspect this configuration changed with the introduction of the new 1845 pattern blade (sans pipeback/quillback).

I have an artillery sword with the same forte panel configuration. I have since identified it as a Volunteer Artillery sword - it is shorter, almost hanger size, but has the three bar hilt of the standard artillery officer's sword.

It too has this earlier design on the forte panel, though I believe my sword must be later. It has a very similar blade to this hanger. I consider it to be a shorter version of the 1845 infantry blade. Almost as if the infantry officer's blade was just broken in two and sharpened. Notice how the fuller in this one goes practically to the end of the blade. I suspect in length though, you'll find the fuller about the same length as you'd find on a standard post-1845 infantry officer's sword. It is an 1845 pattern blade shortened.

Anyway, my point is it seems in police, prisons, volunteers swords and the like the forte panel design simply didn't change when the regulation patterns changed in the army.

Jim McDougall · 30th September 2010, 07:32 AM

Hi Ron, Thank you very much for the kind note, and for the well placed observations also. While this firm supplied the police and prisons, it was over an extended period of course, and there were of course changes in proprietary situation with the passing of partners, taking over by sons etc. and changes in the placement of firm name accordingly.

I have often been surprised to discover the 'lag time' in issuance of the regulation patterns, and often it seems the 'regulation' term becomes almost a misnomer

There is equally inconsistancy in outfitters, suppliers and other variations, so I suppose each case has to be examined specifically. Your point on these changes seems to be probably the way things were.

Thanks again, and all the best,
Jim

Ron Anderson · 30th September 2010, 07:41 AM

Hi Jim

Do you have or do you know about a series of volumes entitled 'The List of changes in British military equipment'?

It's edited by Ian Skennerton. It's the British miliatry list of changes on edged weapons and accoutrements from about the 1860s to the 1920s? Very valuable.

However, I think the changes referred to here precede the published list.

Nonetheless, if you don't have the books, they're worth getting for any researcher. There are 5 volumes.

28th September 2010, 04:30 PM	#1
Valjhun Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 692	English sword/hanger - Parker Field & Sons Hi, Another little mystery. A clearly english, rather short sword. Sharkskin grip, brass mounts, leather scabbard. Nice fullered blade with yelman. Market: Parker Field & Sons 233 Holborn London What exactly is this sword? Victorian era police hanger? Thank you in advance! Attached Images

28th September 2010, 04:40 PM	#2
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,597	Hi, Correct, this would appear to be a Victorian police/prison officers hanger. Usually there is a locking clip on these, for obvious reasons, but this one doesn't have one that I can see. I suspect this might make it earlier rather than later Victorian. There will be Forumites better versed in these than I so hopefully a definitive answer will be forthcoming shortly. Nice piece. Regards, Norman.

28th September 2010, 09:38 PM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,945	Completely agree with Norman's assessment, which affirms what Valjhun had astutely suggested, it is a police or prison warders hanger, and from an extremely esoteric sector of arms collecting. In "William Parker and Parker Field, Gunmakers" by Frederick Wilkinson ("Arms and Armour Annual"Vol. I ed. Robert Held, 1973, pp. 275-282) it describes the arms produced by these makers, who were select contractors supplying the police. Thier premises at 233 Holborn were actually along the road where criminals were taken from Newgate Prison to the gallows at Tyburn and halfway between Newgate and St. Giles Church. The blade style on this is nearly identical to the example on p.276, fig. 3&4 and the blade at the tip has the same false edge on the back of the tip (this is not actually a yelman which is an expanded 'stepped' blade tip). The stirrup hilt is rounded, suggesting a later example (c. 1860s) but this hanger could date from 1850s to 1870s, there are not really enough examples represented to say for sure. It seems the acid etched blade motif was quite varied, but the forte panel configuration seems more aligned with the style used c.1820s when they were using cavalry M1822 type sabres, and these outfitters supplied these units as well as police, who were in a sense auxiliary units. There were etched panels running longitudinally in the fuller used on earlier examples suggested by Mr. Wilkinson, but these seem more toward the 1860s in my experience. I have seen examples similar to Solingen imports by Luneschloss of that period with that type of panel it seems, but its been quite a few years, I know they were Civil War period. As Parker Field were primarily gunsmiths, as well as outfitters I believe thier edged weapons blades and perhaps the entire swords were imported, with the firm name etched onto the blade. Very nice hanger, and as noted, a most desirable item of arms esoterica. All the best, Jim

29th September 2010, 02:38 AM	#4
Ron Anderson Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 228	Hi Jim A good observation regarding the forte panel configuration, which is like the earlier 1822 pattern infantry swords. In fact, I've seen this pattern on infantry/cavalry/General Officer's swords in the earlier part of the Victorian era too (1837-1845). I suspect this configuration changed with the introduction of the new 1845 pattern blade (sans pipeback/quillback). I have an artillery sword with the same forte panel configuration. I have since identified it as a Volunteer Artillery sword - it is shorter, almost hanger size, but has the three bar hilt of the standard artillery officer's sword. It too has this earlier design on the forte panel, though I believe my sword must be later. It has a very similar blade to this hanger. I consider it to be a shorter version of the 1845 infantry blade. Almost as if the infantry officer's blade was just broken in two and sharpened. Notice how the fuller in this one goes practically to the end of the blade. I suspect in length though, you'll find the fuller about the same length as you'd find on a standard post-1845 infantry officer's sword. It is an 1845 pattern blade shortened. Anyway, my point is it seems in police, prisons, volunteers swords and the like the forte panel design simply didn't change when the regulation patterns changed in the army.

30th September 2010, 07:32 AM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,945	Hi Ron, Thank you very much for the kind note, and for the well placed observations also. While this firm supplied the police and prisons, it was over an extended period of course, and there were of course changes in proprietary situation with the passing of partners, taking over by sons etc. and changes in the placement of firm name accordingly. I have often been surprised to discover the 'lag time' in issuance of the regulation patterns, and often it seems the 'regulation' term becomes almost a misnomer There is equally inconsistancy in outfitters, suppliers and other variations, so I suppose each case has to be examined specifically. Your point on these changes seems to be probably the way things were. Thanks again, and all the best, Jim

30th September 2010, 07:41 AM	#6
Ron Anderson Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 228	Hi Jim Do you have or do you know about a series of volumes entitled 'The List of changes in British military equipment'? It's edited by Ian Skennerton. It's the British miliatry list of changes on edged weapons and accoutrements from about the 1860s to the 1920s? Very valuable. However, I think the changes referred to here precede the published list. Nonetheless, if you don't have the books, they're worth getting for any researcher. There are 5 volumes.