GUNONG

nechesh · 15th May 2005, 06:20 PM

I am presenting a newly acquired gunong (thanks rsword) that i suspect is either late 19th or early 20thC. The fittings are all silver and the cross piece appears to be made from a silver coin of some sort.
Do the materials used here (silver and fine burled wood) indicate possible datu ownership? I would imagine the original owner was at least well off. Does anyone know when this form originated? I can't recall ever having seen an example that was from before the mid 19thC. Does anyone have any views on the uses of this weapon? I have read the info on Federico's site, but wonder if anyone has any different or additional thoughts.

tom hyle · 15th May 2005, 06:48 PM

The blade is of classic half-waved form, eh? It's an old style blade, both in terms of the proportion of length that is waved and in the forged curvature of the waves. Weird looking image on the coin.
I think gunongs are somewhat like some pedangs; more or less a simplified martialized copy of a k(e)ris, with a similar lean/curvature to the double-edged blades. I don't know what to make of the "clipped" point ones; whether that's a Luzon, European, or Indonesian influece (even more like a "tempius").
I suspect that gunong is originally a Lumad weapon, but then I feel that Moros and Visayans are for all intents and purposes originally Lumad people. Probably the oddest gunong I've seen is a Visayan version of the form, with left-handed bevel, probably for espada-y-daga fighting, at a guess.

Conogre · 15th May 2005, 06:58 PM

The gunongs were allegedly assasin's weapons, easily concealed in the flowing clothing, but later on they became prestige pieces i their own right with sizes meeting or approaching those of the battle keris.
The coin used for the guard looks like it may have been an American silver dollar, the type the had the eagle with a small sun with radiating symbolic rays,
Mike

tom hyle · 15th May 2005, 08:30 PM

I've heard that, too, about the gunong being for concealment, much as it is said of aikuchi, sgian dhu, and many other smallish guardless or minimally guarded daggers. There's no doubt it can be so worn, but whether that was the usual thing is in the realm of folklore AFAIK, at the moment (not that there's anything wrong with that), and whether the wearers generally considered it concealed or merely tucked away, as for us with pocket knives, is also probably open to interpretation. Most of the sword-sized gunongs I've seen were Lumad, and the Moro ones probably not very old. My Visayan one, on the other hand, has about a 7 or 8 inch blade, and seems c. 19 or very early 20th (spiral horn handle with a supesimplified pommel like one we've seen on a varient bathead sword, horn guard, angle of tang in handle offset to centralise cutting angle of forward edge (as on many old talibons)), but the weird and Spainish/Luzon feature on it is a full length tang. Some Moro ones are tiny, and may even be miniatures (2" overall length....). I think that miniature knives might be a SE Asian artform, BTW, and not neccessarily anything to do with foreigners originally; I see a lot of them, and some seem quite old. Some are jewelry, while others are just tiny.

nechesh · 15th May 2005, 09:52 PM

I also read the concealed weapon suggestion on Federico's site, but he opens that section by saying that in fact little is actually written on these blades. Just to put size into perspective, the blade is 6 1/4" with an overall length of 10". I don't think the coin is U.S. currency. I do see the remains of an eagle on the other side, but it doesn't look like the kind i have seen on old U.S. coins. Also are the end letters "CA" but i still don't think this is a remnant of the word America. Rick (rsword) suggested a Mexican origin for the coin. I also wonder if this is not a replacement part.

Spunjer · 15th May 2005, 10:51 PM

that's a wonderful gunong indeed, nechesh. i saw it during gun day in kentucky.

Ian · 16th May 2005, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nechesh

I don't think the coin is U.S. currency. I do see the remains of an eagle on the other side, but it doesn't look like the kind i have seen on old U.S. coins. Also are the end letters "CA" but i still don't think this is a remnant of the word America. Rick (rsword) suggested a Mexican origin for the coin. I also wonder if this is not a replacement part.

During the US occupation of the Philippines in the first half of the 20th C., the Philippine coins were stamped "United States of America" and had a Philippine form of the eagle stamped on some of them. The coin probably dates from the period of US occupation.

Ian.

15th May 2005, 06:20 PM	#1
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	GUNONG I am presenting a newly acquired gunong (thanks rsword) that i suspect is either late 19th or early 20thC. The fittings are all silver and the cross piece appears to be made from a silver coin of some sort. Do the materials used here (silver and fine burled wood) indicate possible datu ownership? I would imagine the original owner was at least well off. Does anyone know when this form originated? I can't recall ever having seen an example that was from before the mid 19thC. Does anyone have any views on the uses of this weapon? I have read the info on Federico's site, but wonder if anyone has any different or additional thoughts. Attached Images

15th May 2005, 06:48 PM	#2
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	The blade is of classic half-waved form, eh? It's an old style blade, both in terms of the proportion of length that is waved and in the forged curvature of the waves. Weird looking image on the coin. I think gunongs are somewhat like some pedangs; more or less a simplified martialized copy of a k(e)ris, with a similar lean/curvature to the double-edged blades. I don't know what to make of the "clipped" point ones; whether that's a Luzon, European, or Indonesian influece (even more like a "tempius"). I suspect that gunong is originally a Lumad weapon, but then I feel that Moros and Visayans are for all intents and purposes originally Lumad people. Probably the oddest gunong I've seen is a Visayan version of the form, with left-handed bevel, probably for espada-y-daga fighting, at a guess.

15th May 2005, 06:58 PM	#3
Conogre Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Clearwater, Florida Posts: 371	The gunongs were allegedly assasin's weapons, easily concealed in the flowing clothing, but later on they became prestige pieces i their own right with sizes meeting or approaching those of the battle keris. The coin used for the guard looks like it may have been an American silver dollar, the type the had the eagle with a small sun with radiating symbolic rays, Mike

15th May 2005, 08:30 PM	#4
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	I've heard that, too, about the gunong being for concealment, much as it is said of aikuchi, sgian dhu, and many other smallish guardless or minimally guarded daggers. There's no doubt it can be so worn, but whether that was the usual thing is in the realm of folklore AFAIK, at the moment (not that there's anything wrong with that), and whether the wearers generally considered it concealed or merely tucked away, as for us with pocket knives, is also probably open to interpretation. Most of the sword-sized gunongs I've seen were Lumad, and the Moro ones probably not very old. My Visayan one, on the other hand, has about a 7 or 8 inch blade, and seems c. 19 or very early 20th (spiral horn handle with a supesimplified pommel like one we've seen on a varient bathead sword, horn guard, angle of tang in handle offset to centralise cutting angle of forward edge (as on many old talibons)), but the weird and Spainish/Luzon feature on it is a full length tang. Some Moro ones are tiny, and may even be miniatures (2" overall length....). I think that miniature knives might be a SE Asian artform, BTW, and not neccessarily anything to do with foreigners originally; I see a lot of them, and some seem quite old. Some are jewelry, while others are just tiny.

15th May 2005, 09:52 PM	#5
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	I also read the concealed weapon suggestion on Federico's site, but he opens that section by saying that in fact little is actually written on these blades. Just to put size into perspective, the blade is 6 1/4" with an overall length of 10". I don't think the coin is U.S. currency. I do see the remains of an eagle on the other side, but it doesn't look like the kind i have seen on old U.S. coins. Also are the end letters "CA" but i still don't think this is a remnant of the word America. Rick (rsword) suggested a Mexican origin for the coin. I also wonder if this is not a replacement part.

15th May 2005, 10:51 PM	#6
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	that's a wonderful gunong indeed, nechesh. i saw it during gun day in kentucky.