Yataghan/Flyssa

[ariel]

Just ended
http://cgi.liveauctions.ebay.com/ws/...224029803&rd=1
In moments like that one wonders whether Tirri might have been at least partially correct about the origins of Laz Bicagi....

[Jim McDougall]

In Kabyle regions, where the flyssa, whose ancestry seems generally held to have evolved from the yataghan, the young mans greatest rites of passage was the acquisition of his sword. Naturally the flyssa, being locally fashioned, was the traditional aspiration, however it is said that in certain metropolitan regions, the Ottoman yataghan was very much admired and often sought. It would seem that while the traditional blades were the standard, a custom example might have been commissioned.

I am curious about the North African example of the Laz Bicagi, as the horned hilt weapon formerly referred to as Kurdish/Armenian yataghan; Transcaucasian yataghan or colloquially as 'Black Sea yataghan'.
I am wondering if there are more of these in existance than the example in Tirri's book, which is a magnificently produced book and excellent resource overall, despite my unfortunate disagreement with the Egyptian attribution he shows for these ("Islamic Weapons:Maghreb to Moghul", A.Tirri, 2003, p.67, fig. 37B, 'Egyptian/Algerian 'kopesh' yataghan).

While Tirri does not reference his supporting references for the Egyptian 'origin' of these, I recall they included two sales catalogs, and a Russian reference, which was where the kopesh term was used.

My primary question was always, why were all of these swords which were produced in Egypt all exported en masse to regions in the Black Sea and environs, leaving no trace but the forementioned example. I recall in the many years I researched these, finding the identifications of them in 1896, 1941, 1962 shown as Kurdish/Armenian yataghans and so on. I found provenanced examples in Denmark (the article written in 1941 was published by the Danish Arms and Armour Society).

As I have said, the Tirri book is truly outstanding, and it is one that I now have back with me, and I consider it a valuable resource.....with this exception

All best regards,
Jim

[Emanuel]

Blast!!
This example kind of kills once and for all my secret hope/thought/theory that the flyssa developed independently of the yataghan. Oh well...

On the other hand, Camille Lacost-Desjardins remarked that kabyle craftsmen did go to Istamboul and upon their return, did create hybrids. There have been examples posted before of flyssa in silver Ottoman fittings, and of yataghan in flyssa scabbard. This one may be one extreme form of hybridization.

Then again, Oriental Arms had a yataghan listed recently from the Balkans, with a brass hilt with scrollwork identical to that of flyssas. Who the hell knows anymore What I still find interesting is that a flyssa blade is about twice as thick as a classic Ottoman yataghan blade. The example at the top is no exception. I say Kabyles were introduced to the yataghan and liked its shape, but already had their own sword.

Anyway, rantings as are to be expected from me when discussing the flyssa.

Cheers!
Emanuel

[Emanuel]

Here is the "yataghan" from Oriental-Arms: http://www.oriental-arms.com/photos.php?id=2703

And the pics...The scroll work is very very similar, and the blade shape is odd.

[Emanuel]

Compared to the yataghan flyssa from the auction:

[Emanuel]

Compared to another yataghan with very different construction, not seen on the majority of yataghan. Again, notice the scroll/foliage brasswork. The blade in this case even had the triangular ornaments close to the spine, often seen on flyssa.
Thoughts? I recall Ham had once asserted that this motif is a common Anatolian one. Could we see these three swords as part of a continuous link?