Scottish basket hilts and edged weapons

[Jim McDougall]

Over the years there has been occasional mention in discussion of certain Scottish weapons such as the sgian dubh or the Scottish dirk, with several instances of the distinct Scottish basket hilt sword brought in as well. In the comprehensive study of ethnographic edged weapons, those of Scotland are distinct and intriguing, yet are typically not included in this category, and examples of the weapons as well as information on them are equally difficult to find.

It has many years since I actually worked on any research on these, and recently I have become interested in learning more on the development, history and identification of these fascinating weapons. I am hoping everyone might join here in a study of these weapons that will bring together the knowledge and research skills of the membership and readers in learning together about them.

One of the most intriguing of Scottish edged weapons, to me, is the famed basket hilt sword. It is generally held that these fully developed basket guards most likely evolved from similar hilts in North Europe, as well as basket type hilts in England, though the exact progression seems unclear. In the identification of the Scottish hilts, there seem to be two primary forms, named for regions of production; the Glasgow hilt and the Stirling hilt. Naturally, there are numerous variations, and I would like to learn more on the key identifying features of these hilts.

Another feature that is fascinating about the Scottish basket hilt is the symbolism incorporated into the elements of the hilt itself. Often in the saltire plates, there are designs pierced as well as geometric devices inscribed, which in many cases are believed to be the secretive symbolism of the Jacobites, faithful to the Stuarts. It would be most interesting to discuss these symbols, the designs with imbued symbolism constructed into the hilts themselves (such as the 'S' in Stirling hilts) .
The shape, and designs on the pommels would also prove interesting in identifying and dating these hilts.

We have often discussed the prevalent use of trade blades in previous threads, and the basket hilt swords of Scotland are a key case in point. The blades of these swords seem to be predominantly from Germany, though many carry spurious inscriptions and names of Spanish makers. One of the most curious mysteries in the history of famed swordmakers is of course that of Andrea Ferrara, which appears on a majority of Scottish blades, and I would like to address that case as well.

With this being the basic outline for the course of the thread, I hope we can establish an initial guide to the study of the basket hilts, and learn more on some of the associated topics I have mentioned. I know that a number of members have Scottish basket hilts (very nice examples as I recall!) and hope they will join in posting these.
Mr. Paul MacDonald of Edinburgh, who as many here will know, is an outstanding authority and restorer on these Scottish basket hilts, and who has joined us recently on a concurrent thread, has indicated he will join us here in discussion. Mr. MacDonald, as many are probably also aware, did the restoration on what is undoubtedly one of the most historic of these Scottish basket hilts, that of the Scottish hero Rob Roy MacGregor.

I very much look forward to learning more on these weapons, and as always, to the great discussions that bring together the outstanding knowledge that is proudly hallmarked here with all of you.

With very best regards,
Jim

[Norman McCormick]

Hello,
From my name you've probably realised that if not from Scotland I'm certainly of Scots/Irish descent. I actually live in the West End of Glasgow not far, luckily for me, from Kelvingrove Art Gallery and Museum the place which as a child first gave me an interest in Arms and Armour. You will all also know that genuine Scottish antique arms are on the somewhat pricey side and as as result, unfortunately, I've not been able to bag a sword, dirk etc., yet !!! A number of months ago my son asked me if I had a sgian dubh he could borrow, I didn't, I had lost the last one years ago and hadn't bothered to replace it. I decided to do something I had been thinking about and make one. Whether a son was being nice to a dad or not after I gave him the sgian he asked me to make him a dirk as well. True to my roots, some would say, for both pieces I rummaged about in the garage for bits and pieces, wood from an old Victorian wardrobe, various bits of metal including a shovel handle and an angle bracket and luckily a bit from the middle of a badly damaged sword blade. The results, see photos, are not the the most decorative of pieces being plain and to the point, no pun intended, but are strong, sharp and pointy in all the right places. I don't know if this is the right place for modern pieces but I think, and hope, they conform to the spirit of Ethnographic weaponry.
Regards,
Norman.

[Jim McDougall]

Hello Norman,
Thank you very much for posting, and especially for showing us these very beautifully done examples with indeed do reflect, in the beautifully written words of Paul MacDonald, the 'heart' put into these weapons. As you have noted, the true early examples of Scottish weapons are indeed hard to find, and typically quite high priced. While the objective here is to identify the forms and identifying characteristics of these early forms, your outstanding work certainly reflects the spirit imbued in these most important weapons.
Thank you again for sharing these!
All the best,
Jim

[M ELEY]

Invariably, someone will mention the Italian schiavonna being a predecessor to the baskethilt, but I've always failed to see the true similarity. True, though, that the basket hilt wasn't in Scotland in the period pre-1600, making one wonder if there might be some connection. The claymores of William Wallace being the fancy in those earlier times. Still, I don't think that a surrounding hand guard/hilt was found only on schiavonna (the so-called Sinclaire saber comes to mind). What I do wish to know, however, is did these swords truly originate in Scotland or more in England. English baskets seem to have been around for the same time period and of the basic pattern. Likewise, I'm interested to learn more on the significance of the backsword (single-bladed, for cavalry??, horse-back?) vs the broadsword. Excellent to see this thread on what I deem to be an ethnographic sword (certainly the ones whose decoration/symbols and individual forging make them unique, not the latter Regiment models)...

[Jim McDougall]

Hi Mark,
Its great to see you in on this one! and the questions and notes you bring up are exactly those I hope we can resolve in some degree here. The old schiavona chestnut was contrived back in the Victorian collecting days by one of the sages of that time. I need to find the notes on who that was, as well as on the schiavona, which developed independantly and I believe later than the earliest basket hilts. The 'Sinclair' sabres were indeed similar in the surround basket guard form in variation, but as you note, the basket hilt existed in England as well in these early times, and I believe the term exists in Shakespeares work .

Good suggestion on the broadsword vs. the backsword, and if I am not mistaken the Scottish basket hilts were typically broadswords, as they were for fighting on foot. From what I understand of Scottish fencing, these double edged blades were most effective in the distinct method they were used (and I look forward to more on this from Mr. MacDonald, who is not only a professional restorer, but a Master of Arms).
The single blade backswords, as you note, were I believe cavalry weapons that came in about mid 18th century, and although many of these carried Scottish style basket hilts, they were actually English swords.

In any case, I would like to know more specifically on these questions as well, and I'm glad you brought them in here. Thanks very much Mark.

All the best,
Jim

[Berkley]

Jim McDougall wrote:

the basket hilt existed in England as well in these early times, and I believe the term exists in Shakespeares work .

Thanks to the Internet, such things are much easier to find than in the days long ago when I was a struggling English major
Shakespeare wrote:

Away, you cut-purse rascal! you filthy bung, away! By this
wine, I'll thrust my knife in your mouldy chaps, an you play
saucy cuttle with me. Away, you bottle-ale rascal! you
basket-hilt stale juggler, you! Since when, I pray you, sir?
God's light, with two points on your shoulder? Much!

-Henry IV, Part II; Act II, Scene 4.
Footnote to The Yale Shakespeare indicates the term is used literally: "referring to the basket-shaped steel hand-guard on the hilt of Pistol's sword".

[Norman McCormick]

Hi,
Thanks for the kind words. I have seen many examples of both the broadsword and backsword indeed the museum I mentioned in a previous post has quite a collection of these artifacts. The one item that is seldom mentioned is the Claidheam Crom or basket hilt sabre. Although in the minority as regards Scottish swords it appears to have been in use alongside its more normal straight bladed contemporaries. It has been difficult to find any definitive statistics with regard to the basket hilt sabre and this has led me to wonder if this variant is more of a sword of opportunity rather than anything else i.e. a captured or purloined weapon rehilted. It appears reasonable that a perfectly servicable blade should not be disposed of or drastically altered, remember Scottish prudence and thrift, but altered to suit a new owner. I have read somewhere of a sea service sword being rehilted with a basket at the request of a British Naval captain but what type of sword or when escapes me at the moment. As to the origin of the basket hilt I don't think there is any one answer. Scotland in the 16/17th cent. had many, probably more so than now, and varied links with Europe and I believe that most armies of the time, as far east as Russia, had Scottish mercenaries or indeed full time soldiers as in the case of France. It doesn't seem unreasonable that ideas and fashion should filter back to Scotland through these links and that a basic basket type hilt, which with the loss of armoured gauntlets was an obvious progression, should be adopted and enlarged upon and taken up by so many that it developed into an archetypal Scottish feature. Many cultures have taken outside ideas and made them into their own I don't see any reason to doubt that various forms of basket type hilts were in use throughout Europe and that the Scots just took the form to a greater degree than anyone else. Of course this is conjecture on my part but in my experience a lot of highly individual and stylized forms tend to evolve from a lot of different influences rather than just happen. Anyhow I am eager to hear more from other members on this most interesting subject.
Regards,
Norman.

[Norman McCormick]

Some baskets.

[Jim McDougall]

WOW! Norman, now thats what I'm talkin' about! Very nice photos that show detail beautifully. Very well thought out observations on the origins and development of these swords, and it really would be difficult to draw a direct line of progression. All we can do is look at the provenanced and dated forms from the various regions. I have been trying to recall where it was that it was noted that the 'schiavona' connection was discounted and it was shown which early writer had begun that theory, I think it was the article in Caldwell by Blair on the baskethilts that referred to the misperception, and if not mistaken, it may have been Guy Laking that suggested the schiavona origin. According to what I have read, it seems that Drummond in "Ancient Scottish Weapons" (1881) illustrates several schiavona in his book, and possibly that may have insinuated a connection.

It seems that the developing basket type hilts for the schiavona, the Germanic forms including that of the Landsknechts, so called Sinclair sabres, and English forms were all contemporary in the mid to latter 16th c.
( thank you Berkely for that Shakespeare reference! Thats one of the exact references I recall!
The baskethilt found in the "Mary Rose" wreck (1545) is a great example of early English basket hilts, another I think was the one found near the Bahamas in the wreck of the "Sea Venture" used in Shakespeares "the Tempest".

Found an interesting note on the schiavona. The term has always been noted to refer to the Slavonian guards of the Doge in Venice, but a note I found suggests that the a ending the word refers to a Slavonian woman. This is meant in the parlance that the sword is often termed 'queen of weapons' and a painting titled 'portrait of a lady' in Venetian Italian is titled 'La Schiavona'.
Nothing to do with the Scottish basket hilts, but I thought it interesting just the same

Thank you for the kind note Henk! I hope to learn a lot here too on these weapons. I have of course a good working knowledge from research years ago, but working here with the pro's will greatly solidify the bits and pieces.


All the best,
Jim

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Norman McCormick

Some baskets.

Norman, are any of these captioned or noted on identification? Are they from the museum you mentioned?
Thanks very much again, these really are amazing!

Best,
Jim

[Norman McCormick]

Hi Jim,
These are some from the collection at Kelvingrove, I will go back with my notebook and do things a little more properly. The Arms and Armour Curator has left recently and a new one appointed but he has not yet taken up his post. When he does I'll see if I can get better access and photos, I can't promise anything but I'll try. In the meantime give me a few days and I will get info to go with the baskets.
Regards,
Norman.

[Norman McCormick]

Hi,
With regard to the origin of the Scottish basket hilt. Ewart Oakshott the respected arms expert regarded the Scottish basket hilt, Walloon sword, Sinclair hilt, Mortuary sword and the Schiavona all to have had a common ancestor in the mid 16th century Germanic basket hilts although each developed independently according to influences unique to individual type.
Regards,
Norman.

[Paul Macdonald]

Aye, a good thread that`s nice and close to home, folks

From the photos posted, the one second from top appears to be a Walter Allan hilt from Stirling. The top one appears to be a Glasgow hilt in the style of Walter Allan, but I`m not sure if it is made by himself.

Norman, you are pretty bang on about the European development of the basket. Each style of basket hilt (English mortuary, Scottish ribbon or Glasgow pattern, `Sinclair` style, Italian schiavona, Walloon, etc.) is the result of indigenous artistic expression in craftsmanship and Art from any one country.

The function of the basic weapon is the same Europe-wide. A solid cutting blade with a protective basket, and we start to see this development as a unique European weapon from early - mid 16th century.

Its reason for emerging stems from the development of the civilian sidesword from 1500`s onwards. Civilian single handed sword development split into two basic sword forms at this time, the cutting and thrusting sidesword and the back or broad sword, designed mostly for cutting actions.

The reason for hilts developing from simple cross hilted forms of the C15th to basket hilts in the C16th is that prior to this period, swords in Europe were primarily weapons of war, and soldiers wear armour as a matter of course, so in-built hand protection was less of a neccessity in weapon construction.

The overthrow of feudal society from the early C16th onwards saw civilian society adopt many cultural specifics that previously were the trappings of nobility and men-at-arms only. The wearing of the sword was the most distinct symbol to distinguish the identity of a new self-righteous society.

Given that the sword was now being created as a civilian sidearm, hand protection becomes a primary consideration in construction, as the wielder in either duel or streetfight was likely to be wearing a thin leather gauntlet at most, and more likely a bare hand.

A reasonable sword cut will take a wrist to the bone and a good cut sever the hand entirely. These were the simple reasons for the basket hilt being developed throughout Europe at this time, and as said, in distinctive styles in specific countries, though very much at the same time, as social change sweeps throughout all Europe.

As for blades and their forms and function as broadsword and backsword, that`s an interesting subject in itself for another post, as it`s getting late now and time for a late night dram

All the best,

Macdonald

www.historicalfencing.org/Macdonaldacademy
http://www.historicalfencing.org/Mac...mory/index.htm

[Jim McDougall]

Outstanding Paul! as you agree, what Norman has said notes that these basket hilts developed rather convergently to accomplish the same goal, the protection of the hand from the very aggressive and stylized fencing techniques developing throughout Europe.
Norman, thank you again for the Kelvingrove examples, and will look forward to the notes.
It is great to welcome Paul here with us on this very important topic, and I feel fortunate that we have both of you in Scotland in studying these magnificent weapons. With the basics of the origins of the Scottish basket hilt among the other types of these swords at hand, it will be most interesting to move on to the identifying characteristics of the hilts.

Drambuie tonight!!!!!

All the best,
Jim

[Jim McDougall]

On the "Sinclair" sabre

Since we are discussing the early development of the Scottish basket hilt, I wanted to do a bit more research on the so called Sinclair sabre. These of course are often suggested as sources for influence as many have developed basket type hilts, and have been associated/romanticized by 19th century collectors to an ill fated Scottish force ambushed in Norway in 1612.

Actually these 'Sinclair' sabres are a form of Northern European dusagge which typically have heavy basket or shell type hilts, and there seem to be a number of vague perceptions of how these came to be given this term. Many suggest the Sinclair term is spurious, misapplied or even that the tale of this event is fictitious.

In 1612, during the Kalmar War between Denmark and Sweden concerning trade control of the northern coast of Norway, a contingent of Scots headed for Sweden to join with the forces of Gustavus Adolphus. Apparantly there were three companies of troops in the force, which in some cases has been termed the 'Sinclair Expedition', and erroneous by that title. The force overall was commanded by Lt.Col. Alexander Ramsey, and one of the subordinate companies was commanded by Lord George Sinclair, who was the Chief of the Clan Sinclair at the time.

In what has become known as the Battle of Kringen, August 26,1612, virtually the entire Scottish force was ambushed and killed by Norwegian peasants and militia near Otta, Norway. While a number of the Scottish troops survived the battle, most of the remainder were summarily executed the next day. It is said that Sinclair was one of the first to fall, and ironically he and his ancestors were well known to the Norwegians. With this being the case, he became the focus of the 'victory' symbolically, which is why his name has superceded that of Lt. Col. Ramsay who actually led the overall force.

In some accounts it is noted that the Scots were only lightly armed as they were to be armed in Sweden on arrival there, however this seems rather unlikely. It must be remembered however, that the weapons probably were primarily lochaber axes and some broadswords. We have established that types of basket hilts were in use in England as early as mid 1500's and we know that this force did not return to Scotland carrying Northern European basket hilts. It is unclear of course whether any of the Scottish forces had either English type basket hilts or the Northern European dusagge type weapons, but it is known that Sinclair and many of the Scots in the force were very familiar with these Norwegian regions having been there often for timber.

In any case, this tragic event became somewhat associated with Sinclair's name,;in Norway because he was well known there and the battle celebrated for Norways defense of its sovereignty, and in Scotland since Sinclair was the Chief of thier clan. The guarded hilt dusagge being established in use presumably at this time in these regions and later associated with the event by collectors in the 19th century seems to have added the name Sinclair to the distinct sabre type. The idea that these must have been adopted as weapons of choice by Scottish mercenaries, as suggested by collectors of Victorian times also likely led to the thoughts of these being the source for the Highland basket hilt.

[Norman McCormick]

Hi,
Jim this is the info on the baskets in the museum. From the top.

1) 17th Cent. German Blade, possible hilt made in Stirling.

2) 1730-40, Backsword, hilt Walter Allan, Stirling, German blade.

3) 1740, Broadsword, hilt Walter Allen, Stirling, German blade.

4) 1730, Broadsword, brass hilt Robert Craig, Glasgow, marked with the City of Glasgow Arms, German blade.

5) 1700-25, hilt John Simpson, Glasgow, German blade Herman Keisserr, probably belonged to James Graham, 1st marquis of Montrose.

6) 1720, hilt John Simpson the Elder, Glasgow, German blade.

Regards,
Norman.

[Norman McCormick]

Some more baskets. From the top.

1) Early 17th Cent., Scottish hilt, German blade.

2) 1600-50, Scottish hilt, German blade.

3) Early 17th Cent., Scottish hilt, German blade.

4) 17th Cent., Scottish hilt, German blade.

5) Early 18th Cent., Stirling hilt, German Blade.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Norman McCormick

Some more baskets. From the top.

1) Early 17th Cent., Scottish hilt, German blade.

2) 1600-50, Scottish hilt, German blade.

3) Early 17th Cent., Scottish hilt, German blade.

4) 17th Cent., Scottish hilt, German blade.

5) Early 18th Cent., Stirling hilt, German Blade.

In looking at these basket hilts, it seems that #1 and #3 are of the form typically term 'ribbon hilts, and sometimes either snouted or beaknosed for the vestigial remains of cross quillon that remain . It seems like these are usually considered from about the third quarter of the 17th century to about the beginning of the 18th. (Wallace #20).

While nearly all Scottish basket hilts seem to have been mounted with German blades, there is one of this type and of this period with a contemporary French heavy cavalry sword blade ("Culloden: Sword and the Sorrows" p.44, 1:45).

Best regards,
Jim

[Pukka Bundook]

Jim,

Re. the German blades often found on these swords,
Do you know if those blades cut down from the longer "Claymore" type , and made into basket hilt swords when the fashion changed, were these earlier blades too made mostly in Germany?

(There must have been an easier way to ask that question!...I'm in a rush and my brain freezes!)

All the best!

R.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Pukka Bundook

Jim,

Re. the German blades often found on these swords,
Do you know if those blades cut down from the longer "Claymore" type , and made into basket hilt swords when the fashion changed, were these earlier blades too made mostly in Germany?

(There must have been an easier way to ask that question!...I'm in a rush and my brain freezes!)

All the best!

R.

Nuthin' worse than the dreaded brain freeze Richard! I have learned to exercise extreme caution with frozen margaritas

Excellent question on the 'two handed swords'. According to Blair ("The Early Basket Hilt in Britain", p.378) these were in use from 15th century until the 17th century in Scotland. It would seem likely that these came to Scotland from the Continent as well, and most probably Germany. Though it is unclear when the two hand sword went out of date, Blair also notes that most modern writers suggest the early 17th c. It is known that some of these were still in use as late as Culloden, and there is an example shown in "Culloden: The Sword and the Sorrows" (p.23, 1:2) with the double shell guard. It is noted that the blade is probably from an earlier sword and rehilted to correspond with current fashion, a trend apparantly established as early as the rehilting of Wallace's sword in 1505. It is noted further that the blade is from either Solingen or Passau.

In "Scottish Swords & Dirks" (Wallace, pp.11, 24) it is noted that "..many claymores were broken up as they went out of fashion and the blades ground down for use with the basket hilt". While this statement seems convincing, it seems agreed in other sources that considerable numbers of these large two handed swords remained with families, and may well account for those brought out for Culloden.

Wallace also notes that "...a Setzordnung of 1628" lists the blades made for foreign markets included the broad double edged blades made for Scotland were termed 'grosse schotten' ("Broad Scots").

I think that the use of the larger broadsword blades for mounting in basket hilts would have been more a matter of circumstance or preference, and if an individual preferred a basket hilt this might have been done. In the case of broken blades, much as in the case of a blade being salvaged for mounted for a dirk, so might these have been used for a basket hilt. No good blade would be wasted as no Scot would forsake proud steel.
I think there is no more heart rending thing than reading "Scottish Swords from the Battlefield at Culloden", E.Andrew Mowbray, 1971, who wrote and illustrated an account of the travesty of a fence railing at Twickenham House fashioned from the blades of the swords of the fallen Scots on that tragic day.

All the best,
Jim

[Jeff D]

Thanks all for the comments so far. before we go on with this thread I think it would be good to review the basics, starting with the hilt types. I will start with what I can find in the literature (I will plagiarise heavily from the texts and will put all references at the end after working my way through the different hilt types). It would be great if the expertise of Paul, Jim, Eljay and the others could add on.

Starting with the earliest mature form;

The English Hilt (aka; Irish Hilt, Twysden hilt, Highland Hilts). These hilts are thought to predate the more familiar Scottish hilts. They were in use around the mid portion of the 16th century. They came to be associated with the Highland Scots and Irish. Oakeshott reasons this on the fact that a lot of Highland Chiefs had holdings in Ulster bringing a number of Highland mercenaries into Ireland during the subsequent wars. This form is the same as the Sword of Sir William Twysden (1566-1629) of Royden Hall, Kent (Currently in the Met. New York). I think it was Claude Blair who first started referring to this style as 'Twysden Hilt' this name seems to have caught on including the current best reference on baskethilts by Mazansky, as previously mentioned by Jim. Rather than describe the hilt I will try to post a number of photo's First is my Backsword, next is the Twysden sword and third is another example.

[Norman McCormick]

Hi,
Paul, you mentioned in one of your post about the thickness of the steel used for baskets, never having handled an old sword what kind of thickness are we talking about and in the manufacture of baskets was the weight of the basket manipulated in such a way as to determine the point of balance of the sword to suit an individual owner? By the way teetotal isn't contagious, even the Glasgow strain, so maybe we could get together over a coffee pot sometime.
Regards,
Norman.

"Biadh is deoch do MhacCormaig"
"Food and Drink for McCormick"
Inscription above the door to Moy castle, Isle of Mull, in recognition of the help given to Murdoch, 6th MacLaine of Lochbuie by McCormick swordsmen in capturing the castle, c1540.

[Tim Simmons]

Aye okay pal mines a pint of heavy! whats wrong with Glasgow. I am not a Scot by birth, only schooled there, just had to join in.

[Norman McCormick]

"There's nuthin the metter wi Glesga, ah jist don't like it goin roon an roon"!!!
Regards,
Norman.