Indonesian spear with brass blade

[Sajen]

I own already long this Indonesian spear with a brass blade. I never have seen before a spear from Indonesia with a brass blade and frankly said I have no clue from where it originate. So all comments are very welcome!
Overall 163,5 cm (shaft maybe shortened), collar/ferrule 16 cm, blade 22,5 cm.

[milandro]

interesting, this is really brass, not bronze, so its function and purpose must have been absolutely ceremonial (if not decorative) because if bronze can actually be used as a true weapon, brass hasn't got the same hardness.

Indonesia has well known bronze ceremonial axes, I don't know if this tradition has, at some point, given origin to something like your tombak (funny enough the word tombak derived from Tembaga also means a brass alloy....)


I see on line (for sale) brass " spears" very different from yours apparently classified as Majapahit period and I see Balinese Brass spears (also very different from yours).


I have seen brass recongs made in Atjeh and this being a very famous place where they mande all manners of weapons may be a more or less educated guess

[A. G. Maisey]

Actually, the word "tombak" came into Malay & also probably Kawi, thence Old Javanese, from the Sanscrit "tamra" = "copper".

There are many ways in which "tamra" can be understood in Sanscrit, & the idea of "copper" does not only apply to the metal.

For example, in the Puranas "tamra" is a reference to the lingga of Aditya (present day usage, arc. "Adityas"), which is synonymous with Surya, the Sun.

The spelling "tombak" is Malay & BI, the Javanese spelling is "tumbak".

The word "tembaga" is clearly from the same Sanscrit root word.

Separate derivations from the same root, but probably not from the same understanding of that root.

In the Early Classical Period of Jawa, bronze weapons were probably used in blood sacrifice, as they were in India, notably in the Horse Sacrifice. I have a relatively recent Javanese brass keris, & I have seen & handled archaic bronze Javanese blades.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Actually, the word "tombak" came into Malay & also probably Kawi, thence Old Javanese, from the Sanscrit "tamra" = "copper".

There are many ways in which "tamra" can be understood in Sanscrit, & the idea of "copper" does not only apply to the metal.

For example, in the Puranas "tamra" is a reference to the lingga of Aditya (present day usage, arc. "Adityas"), which is synonymous with Surya, the Sun.

The spelling "tombak" is Malay & BI, the Javanese spelling is "tumbak".

The word "tembaga" is clearly from the same Sanscrit root word.

Separate derivations from the same root, but probably not from the same understanding of that root.

In the Early Classical Period of Jawa, bronze weapons were probably used in blood sacrifice, as they were in India, notably in the Horse Sacrifice. I have a relatively recent Javanese brass keris, & I have seen & handled archaic bronze Javanese blades.

Hi Alan,

Thank you for your explanation! Am I correct that the tomak isn't Javanese?

Regards,
Detlef

[chmorshuutz]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Actually, the word "tombak" came into Malay & also probably Kawi, thence Old Javanese, from the Sanscrit "tamra" = "copper".

There are many ways in which "tamra" can be understood in Sanscrit, & the idea of "copper" does not only apply to the metal.

For example, in the Puranas "tamra" is a reference to the lingga of Aditya (present day usage, arc. "Adityas"), which is synonymous with Surya, the Sun.

The spelling "tombak" is Malay & BI, the Javanese spelling is "tumbak".

The word "tembaga" is clearly from the same Sanscrit root word.

Separate derivations from the same root, but probably not from the same understanding of that root.

In the Early Classical Period of Jawa, bronze weapons were probably used in blood sacrifice, as they were in India, notably in the Horse Sacrifice. I have a relatively recent Javanese brass keris, & I have seen & handled archaic bronze Javanese blades.

Interesting, Tagalog also has this term "tumbaga" in old dictionaries, referring to copper, can also be used for mix of gold and copper.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by chmorshuutz

Interesting, Tagalog also has this term "tumbaga" in old dictionaries, referring to copper, can also be used for mix of gold and copper.

No great wonder, Tagalog is a Malay language!

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by milandro

interesting, this is really brass, not bronze, so its function and purpose must have been absolutely ceremonial (if not decorative) because if bronze can actually be used as a true weapon, brass hasn't got the same hardness.

Indonesia has well known bronze ceremonial axes, I don't know if this tradition has, at some point, given origin to something like your tombak (funny enough the word tombak derived from Tembaga also means a brass alloy....)


I see on line (for sale) brass " spears" very different from yours apparently classified as Majapahit period and I see Balinese Brass spears (also very different from yours).


I have seen brass recongs made in Atjeh and this being a very famous place where they mande all manners of weapons may be a more or less educated guess

I guess it's bronze and not brass, you're correct, brass would be too "soft"!

Regards,
Detlef

[milandro]

except it doesn't really look like bronze but more brass

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by milandro

except it doesn't really look like bronze but more brass

The seller has cleaned the spear point because he thought it's from iron and was very surprised that it isn't! But I don't have any experience of what polished bronze looks like!?

Regards,
Detlef

[Sajen]

A short google research for polished bronze!

A work of art inside the council of Europe in Strasbourg.

[A. G. Maisey]

Comparative hardness of bronze & brass depends upon the alloys used, however, as a general guide, brass tests at Rockwell 55, bronze at Rockwell 42

The Javanese spelling of "tombak" is "tumbak", it is the same word with the same meaning, but one of the vowels has been Romanised in a different way.