Why and What We Collect--A Tale of Two Barung

[Ian]

Tim Simmons touched on something a short while back when discussing a newly acquired Native American stone axe. He got me thinking about why and what we collect in terms of weapons and related items. Many of us collect a diverse range of things but we usually have a particular philosophy about what we collect: old versus recently made; everyday weapons versus ceremonial/decorative pieces; a particular people or culture; historically important pieces; and so on.

To start some discussion on this, I noticed that two fairly ordinary Moro barung finished on our favorite online auction site over the weekend. This is a well-described weapon and everyday tool mostly used by Moros of the Sulu Archipelago, and many who visit this site are familiar with it even if their main interests lie elsewhere. I have posted a few of the sellers’ pictures for each item below.

Item A is an older styled barung, in the manner of those made in the late 18th and 19th C. It has the typical leaf-shaped blade, a simple kakatua hilt gracefully carved, and a plain silver punto. The blade has not been etched, but almost certainly it is laminated. This sword is accompanied by a typical older style scabbard, which is flat on both sides and has a small amount of carving to the throat and toe. One “wing” of the throat has broken off.

In short, it is a late 18th or early 19th C Moro barung.

ITEM A







Item B is a later version of a Moro barung from the same general area. The blade is a little longer and narrower, the kakatua is more elaborately ornamented and has a “crest” sprouting from the back of the hilt, and a silver punto with several bands of plaited material overlying the grip. The beak of the kakatua shows some significant chipping and the wooden hilt shows several cracks. The blade has been etched and is laminated. The sheath has a central ridge running down the front of the scabbard and is almost entirely wrapped with thin rattan; the throat and toe of the scabbard are quite ornately carved with okir designs and may once have been filled with lime.

The overall appearance of this barung and its scabbard would suggest that it was made post WWII (see, for example, R. Cato, Moro Swords, Graham Brash: Singapore, 1996, pp. 43-44)

ITEM B







Which brings me to the point of this post. If you were to collect barung, which of these would you purchase and which one do you believe to be more valuable? Some points to consider here are the respective ages of the two pieces, the general condition of each piece, eye appeal and the degree/quality of ornamentation. With respect to the quality of the materials (steel, wood, etc.), these appear roughly the same for each.

Would you be surprised if I told you that Item B sold for 55% more than the cost of Item A?

So, just what do you value in collecting arms?

Ian

[Andrew]

My personal preference would be the older example, Ian. But I have been known to be seduced by a youthful, pretty face...

[VANDOO]

I WOULD SAY ITEM #1 MAY OR MAY NOT BE OLDER BUT THE MAIN DIFFERENCE IS IN FORM AND SIZE. THE DIFFERENCES MAY BE MORE BECAUSE OF DIFFERENT REGIONS AND GROUPS THAN OF AGE. #1 IS THE MORE RARE FORM AS THE OTHER FORM IS ENCOUNTERED MORE OFTEN SO PERHAPS IS THE MORE DESIRABLE TO COLLECT. THE SCABBARD LOOKS TO BE A FORM FROM A DIFFERENT ISLAND THAN ITEM #2.
#2 IS OF A OLDER FORM OF ITS TYPE, ITS FORM AND CONSTRUCTION MAKES ME SUSPECT PRE-WW2 NOT POST. POST WW2 OFTEN HAS WIDER STRIPS OF FIBER WRAP ON THE SCABBARD AND ALUMINUM IS A MORE COMMON FERRULE AND BANDING MATERIAL. THE WORN BANDS ON THE GRIP ARE A OLDER CHARACTERISTIC TOO.
IN THE END WHO KNOWS WITHOUT GOOD PROVENANCE. AS TO THE QUESTION WHICH WOULD I CHOOSE ? I AM SOMEWHAT FICKLE AND GO WITH WHAT ATTRACTS ME MOST ON MAKING SUCH A SELECTION, SO WITH BOTH ITEMS IN HAND IT COULD GO EITHER WAY.
JUST FROM PICTURES IF PRICES WERE COMPARABLE SAY ON EBAY I WOULD LIKELY GO WITH #1 AS I DON'T HAVE ONE LIKE IT.

[Sajen]

Very good topic! I would have taken the barong A, a very good example of an older form and when I would have more money I certainly would have given a bid (special by the price it was gone).
BTW, I have had recently similar thoughts for a thread and will come back later to this matter.

Regards,
Detlef

[spiral]

From the pics. the second item would I guess be being sold being sold by an experienced professional arms dealer very used to years of trading on ebay......

For many possible reasons such sellers usually have more bidders... & any early bidders bids are quickly maxed out, meaning to win the item you have to pay more.

Its not just about the item, its about the salesmanship & strategy used to gain maximum return, I suspect.

spiral

[Royston]

I am that sad, pathetic creature known as a collector or even an addict. It would have to be BOTH.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by VANDOO

#2 IS OF A OLDER FORM OF ITS TYPE, ITS FORM AND CONSTRUCTION MAKES ME SUSPECT PRE-WW2 NOT POST. POST WW2 OFTEN HAS WIDER STRIPS OF FIBER WRAP ON THE SCABBARD AND ALUMINUM IS A MORE COMMON FERRULE AND BANDING MATERIAL. THE WORN BANDS ON THE GRIP ARE A OLDER CHARACTERISTIC TOO.

Agree, this barung don't look like a post WWII barung to my eyes.
Look for example this one from my collection: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=barong

[Ian]

As expected, the responses so far have been varied and somewhat in favor of the older, and perhaps more refined, example. However, I'm also hearing some compulsive/impulsive urges to collecting that I think probably infect all of us from time to time. Of course, those who visit this site and comment are probably the most hopelessly addicted cases anyway.

While I did not mean this thread to be about the technical aspects of the barung, but rather to use the two examples shown as a talking point about collecting, I will answer Barry's and Detlef's points about the age of Item 2. Robert Cato's book is a useful guide in this regard. He notes:

"Usually only the bottom third of antique tagub [scabbards] were wrapped with cane bindings. It appears that the Sulus altered this practice around the time of the Second World War, when they began to wrap their scabbards from top to bottom." (R. Cato, op. cit., p. 44)

If we look at the pictures of the tagub of Item 2, note the almost complete wrapping of the scabbard with fine strands of cane. (I think it is likely that this one was totally wrapped at one time and has lost some of the wrapping.) This would place it WWII or later. Also, the winding of fine cane around the scabbard in this manner seemed to become much more prevalent post-WWII, compared with plaited strands or somewhat wider cane strips on earlier pieces. However, the point noted by Cato seems to be the best indicator of period for the tagub.

Ian.

[RSWORD]

Originally Posted by Ian

As expected, the responses so far have been varied and somewhat in favor of the older, and perhaps more refined, example. However, I'm also hearing some compulsive/impulsive urges to collecting that I think probably infect all of us from time to time. Of course, those who visit this site and comment are probably the most hopelessly addicted cases anyway.

While I did not mean this thread to be about the technical aspects of the barung, but rather to use the two examples shown as a talking point about collecting, I will answer Barry's and Detlef's points about the age of Item 2. Robert Cato's book is a useful guide in this regard. He notes:

"Usually only the bottom third of antique tagub [scabbards] were wrapped with cane bindings. It appears that the Sulus altered this practice around the time of the Second World War, when they began to wrap their scabbards from top to bottom." (R. Cato, op. cit., p. 44)

If we look at the pictures of the tagub of Item 2, note the almost complete wrapping of the scabbard with fine strands of cane. (I think it is likely that this one was totally wrapped at one time and has lost some of the wrapping.) This would place it WWII or later. Also, the winding of fine cane around the scabbard in this manner seemed to become much more prevalent post-WWII, compared with plaited strands or somewhat wider cane strips on earlier pieces. However, the point noted by Cato seems to be the best indicator of period for the tagub.

Ian.

Ian,

I wouldn't date the entire sword based solely on the scabbard. It could be a working life replacement. I believe, as Vandoo and Sajen do, that the barong itself is older than WW2.