Help with 3 'Cross of Agades' daggers

[thinreadline]

I am trying to sort out my collection and would really appreciate opinions on the ethnological / geographical origins of these three . Most books classify them as Tuareg ... but further perhaps more detailed opinions are sought, thank you.

[Marcus]

Tuareg teller arm daggers

[thinreadline]

Originally Posted by Marcus

Tuareg teller arm daggers

Thanks Marcus , but as I indicated I was aware of that much , but clearly the scabbard forms are from ethnically different traditions and what I was hoping to elucidate is exactly what the geographical or ethnic significance of these differing designs is.

[Jim McDougall]

Excellent approach Redline!
These 'telek' arm daggers are indeed very much Tuareg, but it must be remembered that that classification, as you have observed, is quite broadly applied. The Tuareg confederations of Berbers are dispersed over Saharan regions through Niger, Burkina Faso, Mali, Algeria and Libya and are pastoral nomadic people. They were keenly aligned with trade routes through all these regions, so as you can imagine their material culture was equally well dispersed.

These examples have the familiar Tuareg 'cross of Agadez', which though signifying that key region in Niger, was actually only one of the many variants of Tuareg 'cross' known (There are as many as 22). The actual symbolism is often debated, however it is generally held that the cross in their parlance represented the four cardinal directions, or four corners of the world. Items with this were typically presented to a son by his father in rites of passage, signifying this meaning .

While the telek (an arm dagger worn hilt down on the upper arm) often had these 'crosses', by no means were these the only hilt forms.
As far as regionally, though these crosses are known collectively as 'Agadez' crosses, they are as observed indicative of various regions which seem to have their own favored interpretations. Some of these may be quite subtle, and probably quite often misclassified by observers as the trade factor has dispersed these items considerably.

A great source of data on these kinds of forms etc. in jewelry (which often transmits to weaponry motif) is "Africa Adorned" by Angela Fisher. A well illustrated fascinating book which offers great insight into the style and forms of ethnic peoples in Africa.

The scabbard forms here, as well as the arm loops, offer some potential for perhaps more regional classification, but it will take some research!! We can say these are Tuareg telek (or gozma), and possibly the hilt cross shapes might offer some clue .

[thinreadline]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Excellent approach Redline!
These 'telek' arm daggers are indeed very much Tuareg, but it must be remembered that that classification, as you have observed, is quite broadly applied. The Tuareg confederations of Berbers are dispersed over Saharan regions through Niger, Burkina Faso, Mali, Algeria and Libya and are pastoral nomadic people. They were keenly aligned with trade routes through all these regions, so as you can imagine their material culture was equally well dispersed.

These examples have the familiar Tuareg 'cross of Agadez', which though signifying that key region in Niger, was actually only one of the many variants of Tuareg 'cross' known (There are as many as 22). The actual symbolism is often debated, however it is generally held that the cross in their parlance represented the four cardinal directions, or four corners of the world. Items with this were typically presented to a son by his father in rites of passage, signifying this meaning .

While the telek (an arm dagger worn hilt down on the upper arm) often had these 'crosses', by no means were these the only hilt forms.
As far as regionally, though these crosses are known collectively as 'Agadez' crosses, they are as observed indicative of various regions which seem to have their own favored interpretations. Some of these may be quite subtle, and probably quite often misclassified by observers as the trade factor has dispersed these items considerably.

A great source of data on these kinds of forms etc. in jewelry (which often transmits to weaponry motif) is "Africa Adorned" by Angela Fisher. A well illustrated fascinating book which offers great insight into the style and forms of ethnic peoples in Africa.

The scabbard forms here, as well as the arm loops, offer some potential for perhaps more regional classification, but it will take some research!! We can say these are Tuareg telek (or gozma), and possibly the hilt cross shapes might offer some clue .

Thank you Jim ... many many useful pointers here . As is often the case even with Western 'modern' edged weapons, the metal part ie the knife or sword . lasts indefinitely but its scabbard does not ... and so the owner may need to commission a scabbard locally .... hence I feel that whilst the knife itself tends to be fairly unchanging stylistically , the scabbard in contrast will reflect the local fashion and materials . We see this often for example with the takouba scabbard .

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by thinreadline

Thank you Jim ... many many useful pointers here . As is often the case even with Western 'modern' edged weapons, the metal part ie the knife or sword . lasts indefinitely but its scabbard does not ... and so the owner may need to commission a scabbard locally .... hence I feel that whilst the knife itself tends to be fairly unchanging stylistically , the scabbard in contrast will reflect the local fashion and materials . We see this often for example with the takouba scabbard .

Exactly, and this is even more so the case in North Africa. The typically rugged conditions experienced by these nomadic tribes called for frequent refurbishing of weapons much as most materials. In cases where weapons were traded or handed down, even hilts were either replaced or repaired.
The blades of course, most durable of all, have survived in these desert regions for many generations, even centuries.

In the case of the scabbards, as with most weapons, I consider the present one the most recent chapter in the working life of the weapon. As once told by a friend some time ago, a Fulani, the scabbard (in his language) was termed 'holga', which meant 'house'. I thought, much as with people, the sword (blade) simply had moved many times to new houses.

[colin henshaw]

As far as I know, these types of dagger were used by a number of different tribal groups in the Northern Nigeria area and further afield. The one on the right, with the brass scabbard should be from Bida, and made/used by the Nupe people.

They are reasonably common finds here in the UK., due no doubt to the colonial history.

[thinreadline]

Originally Posted by colin henshaw

As far as I know, these types of dagger were used by a number of different tribal groups in the Northern Nigeria area and further afield. The one on the right, with the brass scabbard should be from Bida, and made/used by the Nupe people.

They are reasonably common finds here in the UK., due no doubt to the colonial history.

Thank you Colin. Spring's African Arms & Armour also describes the brass scabbarded types as Nupe .

[Jim McDougall]

Excellent Redline (I like that moniker BTW, reminds me of Redline 6000, old racing days!)......so the axiom should be, 'you shouldn't judge a sword by its scabbard' in the same convention.

Colin thank you for the input, and its great when we can all get together to compare information and ideas. With me as the novice here, I spent most of yesterday digging through every resource I could find to see if there was any sort of potential for regionally or tribally identifying these Saharan daggers.

It seems Briggs (1965) spent quite a lot of time in Tuareg areas, but was geographically mostly in Algerian regions. In his venerable work, he has used a Northern and Southern demarcation for tribal forms of takouba, which, for me at least has proven challenging. It seems hard to apply this to confederations of nomadic people typically moving about over five countries and vast areas of Saharan desert.

One thing I did discover is that the 'Agadez cross' as seen on the left and right examples in the original three posted here, is indeed that known as 'Agadez', but it is one of 21 cross forms, each attributed to other primary Tuareg locations. I found that Agadez (in Niger) was a kind of key point or center in a sense, and for example, the green leather used in scabbards was apparently produced there, and traded for use through Tuareg networks.
The Agadez cross seems prevalent symbolically on many of these daggers as well as on the Tuareg camel saddles.

The other forms of cross seem to be used primarily on jewellery, and not as I presumed in other hilts, though the center dagger here seems to be a variation of the Agadez with arms splayed upward.

Trying to find consistancies in the elements of these daggers, in comparison to other examples I found, it seems that splayed arm configuration may be most aligned with 'Northern' types, from Algerian regions into the Fezzan regions of Libya. I would say this categoric area must include northern Niger as well.
It seems clear that the 'arm daggers' are but one prevalent form of Tuareg daggers, and that that characteristic feature seems to predominate in those areas. The other type, more of a belt dagger resides congruently but more in other areas perhaps .

Turning to scabbards, while we agree these must be a secondary classification feature, one thing I notice is the distinctive open loop on the tip of the scabbard. These seem to prevail on Hausa or Nupe weapons in the same 'corridor' from N. Nigeria into Algeria and Libya.

It is tempting to think that the 'arm ring' form of telek is situated more to Algerian, Libyan, and Niger regions as the same feature is well known on much smaller daggers worn in the same manner as Sudan. This is of course by free association and realizing such arbitrary assumption is easily defeated, however worthy of note.

Naturally most of what I am observing is from research hoping to learn more on these Tuareg daggers, and I look forward to your thoughts as well of course as hoping for Iain to join in. Its fascinating to learn more on weapons I have known little on, and I appreciate the knowledge you guys openly share here.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Excellent Redline (I like that moniker BTW, reminds me of Redline 6000, old racing days!)......so the axiom should be, 'you shouldn't judge a sword by its scabbard' in the same convention.

Colin thank you for the input, and its great when we can all get together to compare information and ideas. With me as the novice here, I spent most of yesterday digging through every resource I could find to see if there was any sort of potential for regionally or tribally identifying these Saharan daggers.

It seems Briggs (1965) spent quite a lot of time in Tuareg areas, but was geographically mostly in Algerian regions. In his venerable work, he has used a Northern and Southern demarcation for tribal forms of takouba, which, for me at least has proven challenging. It seems hard to apply this to confederations of nomadic people typically moving about over five countries and vast areas of Saharan desert.

One thing I did discover is that the 'Agadez cross' as seen on the left and right examples in the original three posted here, is indeed that known as 'Agadez', but it is one of 21 cross forms, each attributed to other primary Tuareg locations. I found that Agadez (in Niger) was a kind of key point or center in a sense, and for example, the green leather used in scabbards was apparently produced there, and traded for use through Tuareg networks.
The Agadez cross seems prevalent symbolically on many of these daggers as well as on the Tuareg camel saddles.

The other forms of cross seem to be used primarily on jewellery, and not as I presumed in other hilts, though the center dagger here seems to be a variation of the Agadez with arms splayed upward.

Trying to find consistancies in the elements of these daggers, in comparison to other examples I found, it seems that splayed arm configuration may be most aligned with 'Northern' types, from Algerian regions into the Fezzan regions of Libya. I would say this categoric area must include northern Niger as well.
It seems clear that the 'arm daggers' are but one prevalent form of Tuareg daggers, and that that characteristic feature seems to predominate in those areas. The other type, more of a belt dagger resides congruently but more in other areas perhaps .

Turning to scabbards, while we agree these must be a secondary classification feature, one thing I notice is the distinctive open loop on the tip of the scabbard. These seem to prevail on Hausa or Nupe weapons in the same 'corridor' from N. Nigeria into Algeria and Libya.

It is tempting to think that the 'arm ring' form of telek is situated more to Algerian, Libyan, and Niger regions as the same feature is well known on much smaller daggers worn in the same manner as Sudan. This is of course by free association and realizing such arbitrary assumption is easily defeated, however worthy of note.

Naturally most of what I am observing is from research hoping to learn more on these Tuareg daggers, and I look forward to your thoughts as well of course as hoping for Iain to join in. Its fascinating to learn more on weapons I have known little on, and I appreciate the knowledge you guys openly share here.

Salaams Jim, As you note earlier the Tuareg Jewellery form is closely related in tradition:

Quote'' Cross of Agadez from http://anakomvoyages.com/tuareghistory.html often worked in Silver. The Agadez cross is the most important piece of jewelry for a Tuareg. According to some sources the Agadez cross is traditionally given by a father to his son when he reaches around 15 years of age. This is the age a boy becomes a man and is free to travel anywhere he wishes. The four points of the cross represent the four corners of the world".Unquote

I note from http://camelphotos.com/camel_saddle.html the peculiar forked saddle made in Agadez by blacksmiths is also a related design feature incorporated also in the Agadez cross idea.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[thinreadline]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Salaams Jim, As you note earlier the Tuareg Jewellery form is closely related in tradition:

Quote'' Cross of Agadez from http://anakomvoyages.com/tuareghistory.html often worked in Silver. The Agadez cross is the most important piece of jewelry for a Tuareg. According to some sources the Agadez cross is traditionally given by a father to his son when he reaches around 15 years of age. This is the age a boy becomes a man and is free to travel anywhere he wishes. The four points of the cross represent the four corners of the world".Unquote

I note from http://camelphotos.com/camel_saddle.html the peculiar forked saddle made in Agadez by blacksmiths is also a related design feature incorporated also in the Agadez cross idea.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Very interesting Ibrahiim

[thinreadline]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Excellent Redline (I like that moniker BTW, reminds me of Redline 6000, old racing days!)......so the axiom should be, 'you shouldn't judge a sword by its scabbard' in the same convention.

Colin thank you for the input, and its great when we can all get together to compare information and ideas. With me as the novice here, I spent most of yesterday digging through every resource I could find to see if there was any sort of potential for regionally or tribally identifying these Saharan daggers.

It seems Briggs (1965) spent quite a lot of time in Tuareg areas, but was geographically mostly in Algerian regions. In his venerable work, he has used a Northern and Southern demarcation for tribal forms of takouba, which, for me at least has proven challenging. It seems hard to apply this to confederations of nomadic people typically moving about over five countries and vast areas of Saharan desert.



One thing I did discover is that the 'Agadez cross' as seen on the left and right examples in the original three posted here, is indeed that known as 'Agadez', but it is one of 21 cross forms, each attributed to other primary Tuareg locations. I found that Agadez (in Niger) was a kind of key point or center in a sense, and for example, the green leather used in scabbards was apparently produced there, and traded for use through Tuareg networks.
The Agadez cross seems prevalent symbolically on many of these daggers as well as on the Tuareg camel saddles.

The other forms of cross seem to be used primarily on jewellery, and not as I presumed in other hilts, though the center dagger here seems to be a variation of the Agadez with arms splayed upward.

Trying to find consistancies in the elements of these daggers, in comparison to other examples I found, it seems that splayed arm configuration may be most aligned with 'Northern' types, from Algerian regions into the Fezzan regions of Libya. I would say this categoric area must include northern Niger as well.
It seems clear that the 'arm daggers' are but one prevalent form of Tuareg daggers, and that that characteristic feature seems to predominate in those areas. The other type, more of a belt dagger resides congruently but more in other areas perhaps .

Turning to scabbards, while we agree these must be a secondary classification feature, one thing I notice is the distinctive open loop on the tip of the scabbard. These seem to prevail on Hausa or Nupe weapons in the same 'corridor' from N. Nigeria into Algeria and Libya.

It is tempting to think that the 'arm ring' form of telek is situated more to Algerian, Libyan, and Niger regions as the same feature is well known on much smaller daggers worn in the same manner as Sudan. This is of course by free association and realizing such arbitrary assumption is easily defeated, however worthy of note.

Naturally most of what I am observing is from research hoping to learn more on these Tuareg daggers, and I look forward to your thoughts as well of course as hoping for Iain to join in. Its fascinating to learn more on weapons I have known little on, and I appreciate the knowledge you guys openly share here.

Thank you Jim , jolly interesting . BTW my Thin Read Line moniker derives from the name of my former business as a seller of out of print British military books ... and of course is a typical silly English play on words !

[colin henshaw]

There is a dagger very similar to that on the left of the image from thinreadline, in the book "Weapons and Implements of Savage Races" by Montague 1921. He ascribes it to Bornu, which was inhabited by the Kanuri people ?