![]() |
|
![]() |
#1 |
Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Olomouc
Posts: 1,693
|
![]()
Hi Guys,
Just got these three. Apologies for the somewhat dark photos - snowing like crazy here and the light is pretty poor indoors. I didn't get overall shots but hopefully this is enough to help out with IDs. 1. Spear with worked stem with little "cubes" or boxes. Blade has a couple of curved lines as decoration. Pretty heavy duty construction. 170cm overall. Spade like foot. Seems like the sort of work associated with Nigeria or Cameroon? 2. Double headed spear - head is 41.5cm overall. This came with a shaft and is over 200cm put together. But no foot/butt so I didn't bother photographing it. No ideas really on this, at first I thought it might be Bagirmi but I have my doubts. 3. Spear with brass decoration and silver collar. Overall 154cm. Spade like foot. Seems like somewhere in the Sahel or Saharan Africa? Any and all help appreciated! Last edited by Iain; 16th February 2013 at 01:12 PM. Reason: Text to fit photo order |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#2 |
Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Czech Republic
Posts: 841
|
![]()
Hi Iain,
The head of upper spear (not the shape, but the style of surface - flat section followed by a rib) shows a likeness to another Indian spear called Ballam (again from the book by Tirri). Also the "silver" ring on the third spear is not, I think, typically African as well as the style of divinding of the second spearhead. Regards, Martin |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#3 | |
Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Olomouc
Posts: 1,693
|
![]() Quote:
Thanks for the help. Another friend has also been helping with some ideas. 1. I didn't think Indian spears had a shoe like this one? It seemed typical of African work to me? 2. This double head looks like it should in fact be from Ethiopia and a ceremonial/parade item. You can see similarity in the head shapes with Ethiopian and Somali spears - and there are other double headed spears from Ethiopia 3. This is probably Madagascar? The style is very close to other Madagascar spears. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#4 |
Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Czech Republic
Posts: 841
|
![]()
Hi Iain,
I am just giving ideas for disposal. I have problem with scanner now, but I will try to post copies of two pictures (you will find similarities) and I do also hope it will be OK with copyright..... - This as far as Nos. 1 and 3 are concerned. Re. double headed spear - it is true it resembles Abyssinian and Somali spearheads. But I donīt think it was designed as ceremonial. I am sure here are much more experienced and well-versed collectors here, maybe they will also join this thread Regards, Martin |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#5 |
Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 803
|
![]()
Iain,
I think you are close re. the origin of these spears. I'm no expert, but the decoration to me appears correct for the areas you mention. Martin, I agree that the manner of manufacturing the first spear has similarities with some from India, but the decoration appears much more African to me. India, diverse as it is, still retains certain types of decoration, and I don't think the above fit. All best, Richard. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#6 |
Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Olomouc
Posts: 1,693
|
![]()
Hi Martin,
I'm really grateful you are sharing your thoughts. I am no expert in spears, so I can easily be wrong. For 3 I thought this was more or less the classic Madagascar design? I saw many spears before with this attribution - but you are right that the silver collar is very unusual. For 1 I am very interested to see any related photos. I can find nothing in this style really in my few books. ![]() Richard, Thanks for the encouraging words. Spears are a new area for me and I am trying to learn as much as I can. ![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#7 |
Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,430
|
![]()
Hi Iain
Good looking spears - would you be able to post images of them full length, also of the butt ends ? Spears with those shoe ends are usually from the Sahel of West Africa, although Madagascar spears are similar, but the Madagascar ones I have seen usually have longer shoes. Isn't there an illustration of a cavalryman with a double-bladed spear in the 19th century exploration book by Denham ? The types with the inlaid brass like that, I usually think of as Hausa... Its very difficult to allocate African spears to specific tribes (although I havn't really made a close study). The following very general points may assist :- a) Where there is Islamic influence, the construction is normally more sophisticated. b) Spears north of the Zambesi are usually socketed and tanged southwards. c) Spears sourced in the UK are more likely to be from ex-British colonies, eg Nigeria. Likewise spears from France would be more likely to originate from ex-French colonies etc... I am attaching some extracts from the book "Weapons & Implements of Savage Races" by L Montague, 1921 that may be of interest. Also images of a couple of my Sahel spears for general comparison. All the best Colin |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#8 | |
Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Olomouc
Posts: 1,693
|
![]() Quote:
Thanks for the info and images. ![]() Actually I had hoped I had something like what Denham pictured. Unfortunately the differences were pretty clear once it was in hand. I'll try to take some overall shots later this week. Bit tricky with the big one due to the size, the butts on two of them are already shown above, the Ethiopian one I didn't photograph the shaft since it has no butt (doesn't look like it ever did). |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#9 |
Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Olomouc
Posts: 1,693
|
![]()
An image showing all three overall - not the best image I'm afraid. But the large one impacts a lot what distance I can shoot from!
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#10 |
Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 403
|
![]()
Christopher Spring's, "African Arms and Armour" page 38 has a picture of a lancer of the Sultan of Bagirmi with a double headed lance very similar to No.2.
Regards Richard |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#11 | |
Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Olomouc
Posts: 1,693
|
![]() Quote:
I believe the illustration you mention is the taken from Denham, from memory Nachtigal reproduced it as well. I'd had some hopes this spear would be from that region - but sadly, once it was in hand it became fairly obvious it wasn't. The scale of the heads is not correct and the construction and details like the shape of the shaft are not correct for the Bagirmi region. Certainly an interesting style and I still hope someday to acquire an example. ![]() |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#12 |
Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,430
|
![]()
Thanks for posting further images. Not really much more to say except - nice old spears !
Regards. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
|
|