Preserving wooden kris hilt

jonng · 29th May 2010, 09:01 AM

Hi All,

I have a Palembang wooden keris hilt that's very old and light with some minor cracks. Most of the carvings are intact and I would like to preserve this. It has traces of wax which has probably helped keep it in such good condition. Should I re-wax it?

BluErf · 30th May 2010, 01:55 AM

I'm not an expert in wood conservation, but I reckon that a bit of wood nourishing oil and wax will be good for the longer-term preservation of the hilt.

Plus, being of a dark hue, you wouldn't need to worry that much about oil stains marring the wood, which can happen to expensive pelet wood with light colour tones.

Which brings me to my next point - I've seen people put kerises wet with oil into the sheath, and guess what happens --> the mouth of the sheath gets stained permanently, and if there is really a lot of oil, some of it can seep upwards into the hilt (especially if you have thread covering the whole pesi). And if you have a light-coloured wooden hilt or ivory, you can get ugly stains at the bottom of the hilt. Again, they will be permanent stains.

So bottomline is to be careful with the amount of oil used - more is not always better. Whatever oil (applied sparingly and evenly) the hilt or blade cannot absorb should be wiped off and the blade or wood looks moistened but "dry".

A bit on micro-crystalline wax - I spoke to a conservator once. He didn't explain but he seemed to be against the idea of using micro-crystalline wax on wood and ivory. Could be something to do with the fact that the wax gets embedded into the surface and is hard to remove. Maybe it stops him from administering further conservation treatments, and he has to remove them before doing so.

BluErf · 30th May 2010, 01:58 AM

I think cracks in hardwood hilts are inevitable. The wood warps with age due to the convoluted wood grains exerting stress in different directions. So NOT keeping these hilts in very dry conditions may delay the process. The oil and wax applied could also help delay the cracks. However, I think they would eventually crack. It's the nature of things; nothing is permanent.

Rick · 30th May 2010, 02:37 AM

Interesting grain always checks sooner or later .

A. G. Maisey · 30th May 2010, 02:50 AM

I cannot accept that hardwood hilts will always crack.

My experience does not bear out what you say, either, Rick. Yes, fancy grains are more susceptable to checking because of the internal stresses, but I've seen museum pieces of European furniture that are 100 and more years old, that have not checked. In the next room I have a suite of bedroom furniture that dates back to the 1930's and that has some of the faniciest grain timber you'll ever see, and that has no checks at all.

If we look at hardwood in other applications, it does not necessarily crack with age, and if I look at the old wooden hilts I have, many of which are made from hardwoods, what I see is some that are cracked, some that are not.

I believe that the cracking depends on the material itself, and the conditions that have had effect upon it during its life.

In respect of preservation, I like a good quality furniture wax for polished surfaces, whether or not that polished surface has been finished with french polish or shellac. I like fine furniture oil for carved wood. An aerosol furniture polish that contains waxes such as carnauba is also OK for carved surfaces, but it should not contain silicon. To distribute on carved surfaces you can use a soft old toothbrush.

It is possible to take up the cracks in wood --- even heavily cracked wood --- by application of raw linseed oil. Its a lengthy process and can involve months of daily rubbing for, say, half and hour, which is really not all that hard to do if you just sit and rub the oil in every night while you watch the TV news.

To prevent an oiled blade from staining a scabbard, and to retain the oil on the blade, which provides the blade with protection, I wrap the wet blade in a plastic sleeve. If you belong to the Exuberant Display Clan, this won't work for you because the untidy plastic edges stick out of the top of the wrongko, or maybe the sleeve won't allow the blade to go all the way into the wrongko. However, if you belong to the Protect & Conserve Clan, plastic sleeve storage of blades is the way to go.

The conservators whom I know recommend storing ferric materials on inert surfaces, such as glass, in a temperature and humidity controlled atmosphere. This is maybe a bit extreme for a home collection, but it shows the way that the trend should go.

EDIT

A really good example in contradiction of the idea that fancy grain will always check has just occurred to me:- gun stocks.

Some of the fanciest timber you'll ever see is to be found in gunstocks, especially old English guns.

It is extremely unusual to find these old stocks with checking, where it is found, the gun is in a condition that indicates lack of care.

Rick · 30th May 2010, 04:18 PM

Yeah, that was too much of a blanket statement I guess .

I had Buginese wood hilts on my mind when I wrote that .

jonng · 30th May 2010, 04:42 PM

Thank you guys! Points noted and very much appreciated. The raw linseed oil treatment sounds like a must try for everyone with a cracked wooden hilt or sheath.

Jean · 30th May 2010, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonng

Thank you guys! Points noted and very much appreciated. The raw linseed oil treatment sounds like a must try for everyone with a cracked wooden hilt or sheath.

Hello jonng,
Be careful with the raw linseed oil, if not diluted it could be very sticky after drying from my experience, try it first on an ordinary piece of wood.
Best regards
Jean

max · 30th May 2010, 06:26 PM

I very often just rub it with a soft towel. And that helps enough.

A. G. Maisey · 30th May 2010, 11:53 PM

Yes Jean, you're absolutely correct:- linseed oil, either raw or boiled, if allowed to dry by itself will leave an ugly sticky residue on the surface of the wood.

But you do not leave it to dry by itself, you hand rub the oil into the wood.

I have finished a number of gunstocks with raw linseed oil, I still have two guns with this finish that I applied near enough to 50 years ago. They've never been sticky and they still look good.

You hand rub.

However, it is not always practical to hand rub, especially in the case of something that is heavily carved. In this sort of situation you can immerse the entire piece in the oil, and it will usually take up the checking. As with hand rubbing, it takes time. A lot of time. I've got a 1930's Bali carving undergoing this treatment at the moment, I expect it will probably take until the end of the year before the checking takes up. When you take it out of the oil you need to dry it off as thoroughly as possible and brush to get into the carving, and you repeat this periodically until the oil no longer seeps out of the wood.

Where I have restored a carving by hand rubbing the oil it has mostly taken months of daily rubbing to take up the cracks.

None of this is a fast process, but it works.

The use of linseed oil in restoration and protection of wood is nothing new. It has been used in my family for four generations at least, and you will find mention of its use in books from the 19th century dealing with this subject. A linseed oil finish is the ideal finish for a wooden threshold, or external wooden stairs, it also has applications in other exposed timber. It is the perfect maintenance treatment for wooden carpenter's tools, such as mould planes & smoothing planes.

There is one problem with linseed oil, and that is that wood with an oil finish needs to be maintained --- its not a do once and forget job like shellac, or a commercial finish like Danish Oil or Truoil. In a humid climate wood treated with an oil finish will grow mildew. An oil finish is perhaps one of the best for wood articles that are in use, but for something that is to be stored, it does require the occasional rub with a few drops of oil in the palm of the hand.

In fact, just about any oil will help dry wood. One oil that perhaps should be mentioned is olive oil, that many of us would have readily available in the kitchen. Olive oil is an excellent leather cleaner and preservative, and is also very kind to wood, however it lacks the protective qualities that raw linseed has. The beauty of raw linseed is that it contains microscopic impurities that do not penetrate the wood, but lodge in the grain of the wood, over time these harden to give a protective coating.

Incidentally, old cracked horn can often be restored by soaking in baby oil, again , its no fast fix. You need patience.

Again I agree with you Jean:- natural wax should not be used on a surface with detailed carving, for precisely the reasons you mention. However, it is possible to buy good quality aerosol funiture wax that contains a mixture of waxes, including carnauba. Again, the manner of use of this is the key to a satisfactory finish. You spray it on, and then brush with a soft brush, continuing the brushing until the wax is evenly distributed and dry.

Speaking for myself, if this hilt under discussion were mine, I doubt that I would do anything to it other than to put a few drops of oil into the palm of hand, rub my palms together, and then rub the hilt until I could see no oil on my palms or on the hilt. I'd do this a few times over a few days, and finish with aerosol spray wax as mentioned above, and good brush with a soft brush. The cracking would need to be very severe for me to even consider trying to take it up.

jonng · 31st May 2010, 06:31 AM

Hi Guys! Sorry I used an old pic of the hilt. I have taken a quick snap of the 2 cracks on the hilt. How should I proceed?

jonng · 31st May 2010, 06:46 AM

Better pics.

Jean · 31st May 2010, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonng

Hi Guys! Sorry I used an old pic of the hilt. I have taken a quick snap of the 2 cracks on the hilt. How should I proceed?

Hello Jonng,
Nasty cracks, I would do as Marco suggests (filling with dyed wax) or as Alan if you have enough patience! By the way the hilt is very finely carved but does not seem VERY old to me as there is no clear sign of wear to the carved motifs (see my specimens for reference).
I tried olive oil which is excellent for nourishing the wood as mentioned by Alan but... it stinks after drying may be unless you rub and rub again.
Best regards
Jean

Jean · 30th May 2010, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonng

Hi All,

I have a Palembang wooden keris hilt that's very old and light with some minor cracks. Most of the carvings are intact and I would like to preserve this. It has traces of wax which has probably helped keep it in such good condition. Should I re-wax it?

Hello Jonng,
I personally like to oil or wax wooden hilts but would personally not apply pure bee or carnuba wax on this particular piece as it will partly fill the tiny carvings and leave white specks upon drying which are difficult to remove. A dyed liquid wax would not create this visual problem but still partly fill the cavities so I would rather use oil in your case, I personally use good quality melati, cendana, rose, or almond oil.
Best regards
Jean

29th May 2010, 09:01 AM	#1
jonng Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 41	Preserving wooden kris hilt Hi All, I have a Palembang wooden keris hilt that's very old and light with some minor cracks. Most of the carvings are intact and I would like to preserve this. It has traces of wax which has probably helped keep it in such good condition. Should I re-wax it? Attached Images

30th May 2010, 02:50 AM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,892	I cannot accept that hardwood hilts will always crack. My experience does not bear out what you say, either, Rick. Yes, fancy grains are more susceptable to checking because of the internal stresses, but I've seen museum pieces of European furniture that are 100 and more years old, that have not checked. In the next room I have a suite of bedroom furniture that dates back to the 1930's and that has some of the faniciest grain timber you'll ever see, and that has no checks at all. If we look at hardwood in other applications, it does not necessarily crack with age, and if I look at the old wooden hilts I have, many of which are made from hardwoods, what I see is some that are cracked, some that are not. I believe that the cracking depends on the material itself, and the conditions that have had effect upon it during its life. In respect of preservation, I like a good quality furniture wax for polished surfaces, whether or not that polished surface has been finished with french polish or shellac. I like fine furniture oil for carved wood. An aerosol furniture polish that contains waxes such as carnauba is also OK for carved surfaces, but it should not contain silicon. To distribute on carved surfaces you can use a soft old toothbrush. It is possible to take up the cracks in wood --- even heavily cracked wood --- by application of raw linseed oil. Its a lengthy process and can involve months of daily rubbing for, say, half and hour, which is really not all that hard to do if you just sit and rub the oil in every night while you watch the TV news. To prevent an oiled blade from staining a scabbard, and to retain the oil on the blade, which provides the blade with protection, I wrap the wet blade in a plastic sleeve. If you belong to the Exuberant Display Clan, this won't work for you because the untidy plastic edges stick out of the top of the wrongko, or maybe the sleeve won't allow the blade to go all the way into the wrongko. However, if you belong to the Protect & Conserve Clan, plastic sleeve storage of blades is the way to go. The conservators whom I know recommend storing ferric materials on inert surfaces, such as glass, in a temperature and humidity controlled atmosphere. This is maybe a bit extreme for a home collection, but it shows the way that the trend should go. EDIT A really good example in contradiction of the idea that fancy grain will always check has just occurred to me:- gun stocks. Some of the fanciest timber you'll ever see is to be found in gunstocks, especially old English guns. It is extremely unusual to find these old stocks with checking, where it is found, the gun is in a condition that indicates lack of care. Last edited by A. G. Maisey; 30th May 2010 at 04:11 AM.

31st May 2010, 06:31 AM	#11
jonng Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 41	Hi Guys! Sorry I used an old pic of the hilt. I have taken a quick snap of the 2 cracks on the hilt. How should I proceed? Attached Images

31st May 2010, 06:46 AM	#12
jonng Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 41	Better pics. Attached Images

30th May 2010, 01:55 AM	#2
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	I'm not an expert in wood conservation, but I reckon that a bit of wood nourishing oil and wax will be good for the longer-term preservation of the hilt. Plus, being of a dark hue, you wouldn't need to worry that much about oil stains marring the wood, which can happen to expensive pelet wood with light colour tones. Which brings me to my next point - I've seen people put kerises wet with oil into the sheath, and guess what happens --> the mouth of the sheath gets stained permanently, and if there is really a lot of oil, some of it can seep upwards into the hilt (especially if you have thread covering the whole pesi). And if you have a light-coloured wooden hilt or ivory, you can get ugly stains at the bottom of the hilt. Again, they will be permanent stains. So bottomline is to be careful with the amount of oil used - more is not always better. Whatever oil (applied sparingly and evenly) the hilt or blade cannot absorb should be wiped off and the blade or wood looks moistened but "dry". A bit on micro-crystalline wax - I spoke to a conservator once. He didn't explain but he seemed to be against the idea of using micro-crystalline wax on wood and ivory. Could be something to do with the fact that the wax gets embedded into the surface and is hard to remove. Maybe it stops him from administering further conservation treatments, and he has to remove them before doing so.

30th May 2010, 01:58 AM	#3
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	I think cracks in hardwood hilts are inevitable. The wood warps with age due to the convoluted wood grains exerting stress in different directions. So NOT keeping these hilts in very dry conditions may delay the process. The oil and wax applied could also help delay the cracks. However, I think they would eventually crack. It's the nature of things; nothing is permanent.

30th May 2010, 02:37 AM	#4
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Interesting grain always checks sooner or later .

30th May 2010, 04:18 PM	#6
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Yeah, that was too much of a blanket statement I guess . I had Buginese wood hilts on my mind when I wrote that .

30th May 2010, 04:42 PM	#7
jonng Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 41	Thank you guys! Points noted and very much appreciated. The raw linseed oil treatment sounds like a must try for everyone with a cracked wooden hilt or sheath.

30th May 2010, 06:26 PM	#9
max Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 12	I very often just rub it with a soft towel. And that helps enough.

30th May 2010, 11:53 PM	#10
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,892	Yes Jean, you're absolutely correct:- linseed oil, either raw or boiled, if allowed to dry by itself will leave an ugly sticky residue on the surface of the wood. But you do not leave it to dry by itself, you hand rub the oil into the wood. I have finished a number of gunstocks with raw linseed oil, I still have two guns with this finish that I applied near enough to 50 years ago. They've never been sticky and they still look good. You hand rub. However, it is not always practical to hand rub, especially in the case of something that is heavily carved. In this sort of situation you can immerse the entire piece in the oil, and it will usually take up the checking. As with hand rubbing, it takes time. A lot of time. I've got a 1930's Bali carving undergoing this treatment at the moment, I expect it will probably take until the end of the year before the checking takes up. When you take it out of the oil you need to dry it off as thoroughly as possible and brush to get into the carving, and you repeat this periodically until the oil no longer seeps out of the wood. Where I have restored a carving by hand rubbing the oil it has mostly taken months of daily rubbing to take up the cracks. None of this is a fast process, but it works. The use of linseed oil in restoration and protection of wood is nothing new. It has been used in my family for four generations at least, and you will find mention of its use in books from the 19th century dealing with this subject. A linseed oil finish is the ideal finish for a wooden threshold, or external wooden stairs, it also has applications in other exposed timber. It is the perfect maintenance treatment for wooden carpenter's tools, such as mould planes & smoothing planes. There is one problem with linseed oil, and that is that wood with an oil finish needs to be maintained --- its not a do once and forget job like shellac, or a commercial finish like Danish Oil or Truoil. In a humid climate wood treated with an oil finish will grow mildew. An oil finish is perhaps one of the best for wood articles that are in use, but for something that is to be stored, it does require the occasional rub with a few drops of oil in the palm of the hand. In fact, just about any oil will help dry wood. One oil that perhaps should be mentioned is olive oil, that many of us would have readily available in the kitchen. Olive oil is an excellent leather cleaner and preservative, and is also very kind to wood, however it lacks the protective qualities that raw linseed has. The beauty of raw linseed is that it contains microscopic impurities that do not penetrate the wood, but lodge in the grain of the wood, over time these harden to give a protective coating. Incidentally, old cracked horn can often be restored by soaking in baby oil, again , its no fast fix. You need patience. Again I agree with you Jean:- natural wax should not be used on a surface with detailed carving, for precisely the reasons you mention. However, it is possible to buy good quality aerosol funiture wax that contains a mixture of waxes, including carnauba. Again, the manner of use of this is the key to a satisfactory finish. You spray it on, and then brush with a soft brush, continuing the brushing until the wax is evenly distributed and dry. Speaking for myself, if this hilt under discussion were mine, I doubt that I would do anything to it other than to put a few drops of oil into the palm of hand, rub my palms together, and then rub the hilt until I could see no oil on my palms or on the hilt. I'd do this a few times over a few days, and finish with aerosol spray wax as mentioned above, and good brush with a soft brush. The cracking would need to be very severe for me to even consider trying to take it up.