Kilij with square kufic inscriptions

rand · 10th August 2007, 04:02 AM

http://turkishkilij1.blogspot.com/

Kilij from private collection, would like to open discussion on any aspect of this sword.

Have been comparing square kufic insciptions on Turkish blades. the Square kufic was used during the time of Muhammad and the Quran was originally written with it. Square kufic is also the only calligraphy ever used to entirely decorate the exterior of buildings.

Every so often there seems to have been a revival of of this type calligraphy used on blades. Some of the inscriptions are phrases from the Quran. Muhammad was the one who started the use of text to decorate weapons and armor for talismanic purposes in the Islamic empire.

If we look at early examples of venerated swords that were cared for with great respect, we see that inlay and encustration of gold was lavish.

The technique that was used for inlay on Turkish blades 16th century and earlier has not been documented yet as far as I know. But it may be the same overlapping triangular punch we have so many later examples of, metalworking traditions do carry on for centuries as long as there is demand for it.

If you know of documented early Turkish inlay techinques I would like that information.

Also am finding very few transaltions of 17th century and earlier Turkish cartouches and inscriptions, if you know of a reference for that let me know.

rand

erlikhan · 10th August 2007, 09:13 AM

There might be a dating like 975 (16th c.) on the left cartuche, or the cartuche closest to the blade tip. Am I right?

kronckew · 10th August 2007, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by erlikhan

There might be a dating like 975 (16th c.) on the left cartuche, or the cartuche closest to the blade tip. Am I right?

in arabic 975 = ٩٧٥

erlikhan · 10th August 2007, 10:10 AM

Right, the figures look like 975 in Arabic numbers, but in a decorated way.

rand · 10th August 2007, 05:00 PM

Two more images of sword...

rand · 11th August 2007, 03:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by erlikhan

Right, the figures look like 975 in Arabic numbers, but in a decorated way.

Do you have an opinion as to when the calligraphy was done?

Thanks,

rand

rand · 11th August 2007, 03:45 AM

Started this new thread when I realized I had deviated away from Artzi's thread on his kilijs with inscriptions.

This sword has a different style calligraphy, its the same type calligraphy as the Quran was writen in. It is also the only calligraphy ever used to decorate the exterior of building, such as Samarkand.

The calligraphy on this blade apprears to be in the square kufic style.
http://www.sakkal.com/Arab_Calligraphy_Art6.html

Square kufic alphabet
http://www.sakkal.com/instrctn/sq_kufi_alphabet.html

Above are links to examples of Square kufic script.

rand

rand · 10th August 2007, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronckew

in arabic 975 = ٩٧٥

976- 29 (3%) + 622 = 1568

Don't know what the rest of the inscription says,

don't know if this is date for being made or a reference to something else.

But would like to know, there is a huge gap to fill of translations of Turkish inscriptions, espsecially translated to English.

But all the small clue when added up will help form a better opinion.

Received information this is not a date.....

rand

Battara · 10th August 2007, 08:13 PM

It also looks like you have at least one bismallah (name of God) and a Qur'anic verse.

Masterful work done on this - beautiful!

rand · 11th August 2007, 03:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

It also looks like you have at least one bismallah (name of God) and a Qur'anic verse.

Masterful work done on this - beautiful!

Do you have an opinion as to the time period the calligraphy in the inscription was done on this kilij?

Thanks,

rand

ham · 11th August 2007, 08:34 PM

Rand,

How did you establish this?

Muhammad was the one who started the use of text to decorate weapons and armor for talismanic purposes in the Islamic empire.

Further:

One thing to take note of is the 16th century swords above have animal skin wrapped over the handle.

This is not invariable. The sword you pictured above with the grip covered in green rayskin, for example, is a late replacement.

Ham

rand · 11th August 2007, 09:51 PM

Hi Ham,

The sword with the ray skin wrapped handle belonged to
Selim I Yavuz (16th C.)

The sword pictured here belinged to
Sultan Suleyman (16th C.)
appears to be black leather wrapped.

Both these swords are on display at the Turkish Military Museum,

I assumed these coveted swords to have been safely housed and kept for centuries, any information you have to the contrary or indicating later use please share.

Reguarding Muhammad putting verses from the Quran on his arms and armor I will look for that reference and get back to you.

Appreciate your input,

rand

ham · 11th August 2007, 10:36 PM

Your assumption is inaccurate, unfortunately. This too, is a 19th century rehilt as are many of the others displayed in various Turkish museums. The guard and pommel are Persian or Afghan work, and there is a strong tendency for grips on this type to be leather-covered wood.
The mounts of the swords of the Rightly Guided Ones, preserved in the Reliquary at Topkapi, are more or less all 16th century; they are a reasonably reliable reference for mounts of that period. See
Yucel, Unsal: Islamic Swords and Swordsmiths, Istanbul: IRCICA, 2001.

Ham

rand · 12th August 2007, 02:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ham

Your assumption is inaccurate, unfortunately. This too, is a 19th century rehilt as are many of the others displayed in various Turkish museums. The guard and pommel are Persian or Afghan work, and there is a strong tendency for grips on this type to be leather-covered wood.
The mounts of the swords of the Rightly Guided Ones, preserved in the Reliquary at Topkapi, are more or less all 16th century; they are a reasonably reliable reference for mounts of that period. See
Yucel, Unsal: Islamic Swords and Swordsmiths, Istanbul: IRCICA, 2001.

Ham

Hi Ham,

Are you refering to quote "Most of the swords housed in the Holy Relics section at the Topkapi Palace Museum were, following the conquest of Egypt, repaired and redecorated between 923-927 hijia C.E. In most cases their hilts and scabbards were completely replaced" , page 64, Islamic Swords and SwordSmiths.

Looked but found no mention of Suleymans sword in Yucels book.

The crossguard on Suleymans sword pictured above sword looks a later replacement to me, especially the shape of the ends of the quillons does not fit 16th century style. The pierce work on the crossguard on it looks more to the Persian taste.

rand

10th August 2007, 04:02 AM	#1
rand Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 538	Kilij with square kufic inscriptions http://turkishkilij1.blogspot.com/ Kilij from private collection, would like to open discussion on any aspect of this sword. Have been comparing square kufic insciptions on Turkish blades. the Square kufic was used during the time of Muhammad and the Quran was originally written with it. Square kufic is also the only calligraphy ever used to entirely decorate the exterior of buildings. Every so often there seems to have been a revival of of this type calligraphy used on blades. Some of the inscriptions are phrases from the Quran. Muhammad was the one who started the use of text to decorate weapons and armor for talismanic purposes in the Islamic empire. If we look at early examples of venerated swords that were cared for with great respect, we see that inlay and encustration of gold was lavish. The technique that was used for inlay on Turkish blades 16th century and earlier has not been documented yet as far as I know. But it may be the same overlapping triangular punch we have so many later examples of, metalworking traditions do carry on for centuries as long as there is demand for it. If you know of documented early Turkish inlay techinques I would like that information. Also am finding very few transaltions of 17th century and earlier Turkish cartouches and inscriptions, if you know of a reference for that let me know. rand Attached Images Last edited by rand; 10th August 2007 at 07:01 AM.

10th August 2007, 10:10 AM	#4
erlikhan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Istanbul Posts: 452	Right, the figures look like 975 in Arabic numbers, but in a decorated way. Last edited by erlikhan; 10th August 2007 at 10:36 AM.

10th August 2007, 05:00 PM	#5
rand Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 538	Close ups Two more images of sword... Attached Images Last edited by rand; 10th August 2007 at 05:33 PM.

11th August 2007, 03:45 AM	#7
rand Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 538	Square Kufic Inscriptions Started this new thread when I realized I had deviated away from Artzi's thread on his kilijs with inscriptions. This sword has a different style calligraphy, its the same type calligraphy as the Quran was writen in. It is also the only calligraphy ever used to decorate the exterior of building, such as Samarkand. The calligraphy on this blade apprears to be in the square kufic style. http://www.sakkal.com/Arab_Calligraphy_Art6.html Square kufic alphabet http://www.sakkal.com/instrctn/sq_kufi_alphabet.html Above are links to examples of Square kufic script. rand

11th August 2007, 09:51 PM	#12
rand Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 538	Sword grip coverings Hi Ham, The sword with the ray skin wrapped handle belonged to Selim I Yavuz (16th C.) The sword pictured here belinged to Sultan Suleyman (16th C.) appears to be black leather wrapped. Both these swords are on display at the Turkish Military Museum, I assumed these coveted swords to have been safely housed and kept for centuries, any information you have to the contrary or indicating later use please share. Reguarding Muhammad putting verses from the Quran on his arms and armor I will look for that reference and get back to you. Appreciate your input, rand Attached Images Last edited by rand; 11th August 2007 at 10:05 PM.

10th August 2007, 09:13 AM	#2
erlikhan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Istanbul Posts: 452	There might be a dating like 975 (16th c.) on the left cartuche, or the cartuche closest to the blade tip. Am I right?

10th August 2007, 08:13 PM	#9
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	It also looks like you have at least one bismallah (name of God) and a Qur'anic verse. Masterful work done on this - beautiful!

11th August 2007, 08:34 PM	#11
ham Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 190	Rand, How did you establish this? Muhammad was the one who started the use of text to decorate weapons and armor for talismanic purposes in the Islamic empire. Further: One thing to take note of is the 16th century swords above have animal skin wrapped over the handle. This is not invariable. The sword you pictured above with the grip covered in green rayskin, for example, is a late replacement. Ham

11th August 2007, 10:36 PM	#13
ham Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 190	Your assumption is inaccurate, unfortunately. This too, is a 19th century rehilt as are many of the others displayed in various Turkish museums. The guard and pommel are Persian or Afghan work, and there is a strong tendency for grips on this type to be leather-covered wood. The mounts of the swords of the Rightly Guided Ones, preserved in the Reliquary at Topkapi, are more or less all 16th century; they are a reasonably reliable reference for mounts of that period. See Yucel, Unsal: Islamic Swords and Swordsmiths, Istanbul: IRCICA, 2001. Ham