Victorian musket for use in INDIA.

Valjhun · 25th September 2010, 06:44 PM

Hi,

I've came across that old musket I have in my collection for years.

My best guess would be that it is a Victorian musket produced for sepoy units. It is engraved with "agra" wich is a city in India if I'm correct.

It looks like one of those Sikh rifles....

Any comments?

Jim McDougall · 26th September 2010, 07:49 AM

While guns are not my forte, as is well known, I like to learn so Ive spent some time seeing what I could find on this attractive carbine, and yes, Agra is a very important city in Uttar Pradesh in India, also famed for the Taj Mahal.
Agra was also important for the fort there, and its arsenal, and it is tempting to associate the AGRA marking as well as the numbers with the other markings with the Indian Mutiny of 1857. The mutiny began to the west in Meerut on May 10,1857, but spread rapidly.

Agra, to the east, had the fort and was garrisoned by a battery of artillery, primarily European ,as well the 3rd Bengal Fusiliers, an East India Company regiment, comprised with many European troops. There were two regiments of native troops for the Crown, the 44th and 67th Native Bengal Infantries.

This carbine appears to be of the pattern 1842 artillery carbine form, and as it does not carry the usual government stamps or markings, would likely be a weapon from a contractor to the EIC.

These are facts that we know concerning Agra in these times, so with that we can speculate as follows:
Perhaps the carbine was used by one of the EIC unit members or possibly the artillery unit. Either of these might have used these carbines.

The so called Battle of Agra was more of a siege that is not widely included in histories of the Mutiny although it had considerable importance. During this period large numbers of Europeans sought refuge here, and during that time there were ersatz units formed by civilians, some irregular cavalry.

The crude manner in which this is inscribed with AGRA, as well as the apparantly inventory type numbering might indicate such ersatz use.
As far as I can tell, sepoys of the Crown regiments which as noted, were infantry, were issued the M1853 Enfield muskets....the source of the resultant furor charged with starting the mutiny, the greased paper cartridges. It is noted that Mutineers seem to have forgotten that issue when they used the rifles against the British, suggesting that that issue may have been a bit overplayed.

Obviously these observations on this percussion carbine are mostly speculation, but may illustrate the events taking place at the time it was in use and explain the reason for AGRA on the gun.

Best regards,
Jim

Valjhun · 26th September 2010, 10:34 AM

Thank you very much Jim! Brilliant deductions as ever.

Jim McDougall · 26th September 2010, 04:22 PM

You're most welcome Valjhun !! and I'd like to thank you for sharing this outstanding carbine. As always, these weapons have stories they want to share with us, and Im grateful for the opportunity to see this one

All the best,
Jim

sabertasche · 27th September 2010, 04:01 PM

Just curious Valjhun if your musket has a rifled bore. I seem to remember that British issued guns, to be used by British soldiers were rifled and those meant for non-British troops were not. This meant that British troops had more accurate rifles.

Greg

Valjhun · 27th September 2010, 04:52 PM

No, interestingly, it is not ribbed... A sepoy gun I guess...

25th September 2010, 06:44 PM	#1
Valjhun Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 692	Victorian musket for use in INDIA. Hi, I've came across that old musket I have in my collection for years. My best guess would be that it is a Victorian musket produced for sepoy units. It is engraved with "agra" wich is a city in India if I'm correct. It looks like one of those Sikh rifles.... Any comments? Attached Images

26th September 2010, 07:49 AM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,942	While guns are not my forte, as is well known, I like to learn so Ive spent some time seeing what I could find on this attractive carbine, and yes, Agra is a very important city in Uttar Pradesh in India, also famed for the Taj Mahal. Agra was also important for the fort there, and its arsenal, and it is tempting to associate the AGRA marking as well as the numbers with the other markings with the Indian Mutiny of 1857. The mutiny began to the west in Meerut on May 10,1857, but spread rapidly. Agra, to the east, had the fort and was garrisoned by a battery of artillery, primarily European ,as well the 3rd Bengal Fusiliers, an East India Company regiment, comprised with many European troops. There were two regiments of native troops for the Crown, the 44th and 67th Native Bengal Infantries. This carbine appears to be of the pattern 1842 artillery carbine form, and as it does not carry the usual government stamps or markings, would likely be a weapon from a contractor to the EIC. These are facts that we know concerning Agra in these times, so with that we can speculate as follows: Perhaps the carbine was used by one of the EIC unit members or possibly the artillery unit. Either of these might have used these carbines. The so called Battle of Agra was more of a siege that is not widely included in histories of the Mutiny although it had considerable importance. During this period large numbers of Europeans sought refuge here, and during that time there were ersatz units formed by civilians, some irregular cavalry. The crude manner in which this is inscribed with AGRA, as well as the apparantly inventory type numbering might indicate such ersatz use. As far as I can tell, sepoys of the Crown regiments which as noted, were infantry, were issued the M1853 Enfield muskets....the source of the resultant furor charged with starting the mutiny, the greased paper cartridges. It is noted that Mutineers seem to have forgotten that issue when they used the rifles against the British, suggesting that that issue may have been a bit overplayed. Obviously these observations on this percussion carbine are mostly speculation, but may illustrate the events taking place at the time it was in use and explain the reason for AGRA on the gun. Best regards, Jim Attached Images

26th September 2010, 10:34 AM	#3
Valjhun Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 692	Thank you very much Jim! Brilliant deductions as ever.

26th September 2010, 04:22 PM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,942	You're most welcome Valjhun !! and I'd like to thank you for sharing this outstanding carbine. As always, these weapons have stories they want to share with us, and Im grateful for the opportunity to see this one All the best, Jim

27th September 2010, 04:01 PM	#5
sabertasche Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 149	Just curious Valjhun if your musket has a rifled bore. I seem to remember that British issued guns, to be used by British soldiers were rifled and those meant for non-British troops were not. This meant that British troops had more accurate rifles. Greg

27th September 2010, 04:52 PM	#6
Valjhun Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 692	No, interestingly, it is not ribbed... A sepoy gun I guess...