kaskara konundrum

stephen wood · 20th January 2009, 11:47 PM

...just finished on Ebay: sukhela blade with eyelash markings, sudanese silver (?) hilt decorations, strange crossguard.

What do you make of it?

katana · 21st January 2009, 12:15 AM

Hi Stephen,
I too followed this auction because of the 'eyelash' markings....usually associated with mainly Indian blades.
So, either this is a re-worked (?) Indian blade (possibly) or the marking has been 'adopted' ...as the 'half moon' was from earlier trade blades from Europe.

Seeing as there has been sea trade between India and the East coast of Africa, for centuries and, the overland Arab trade routes for even longer ...I can see no reason that the Kaskara is not genuine.

I wish I could have bid (damn credit crunch

) ...it is the first I have see with such markings.

Kind Regards David

TVV · 21st January 2009, 01:06 AM

I tried bidding, but did it in the last few seconds and of course forgot about the stupid ebay.co.uk edged weapons rules, which basically ask for credit card info. It looked like a really nice piece, but if it is of any consolation, I think I saw the ID of the winner (how this happened I am not sure, maybe some bug in eBay) and he is a member here, so we might actually see better pictures in a few weeks.

I agree the "gurda" markings seem to have an Indian origin, especially with the dots at the ends of the eyelashes.

Regards,
Teodor

BBJW · 21st January 2009, 01:53 AM

I was watching this one too. Interesting blade. My guess is the hilt was added later. If I had bought this it would have gone on the wall with my other "enigma" pieces.

Cheers
bbjw

Jim McDougall · 21st January 2009, 03:56 AM

Extremely interesting blade in modern Darfur mounts, as seen with the flat discoid pommel, the designs in the grip cover, and the workmanlike, somewhat crudely fashioned crossguard.

What is interesting about the blade is keyed by the term 'sukhela' used by Stephen in describing this backsword blade, an instance seldom, if ever seen on Sudanese sa'if (kaskara). While the influx of blades into the Sahara and Sudan typically were through various points of entry from Meditteranean ports, it is known that others did in degree arrive through Red Sea ports.

The potential for a blade from India ending up in Darfur certainly is a plausible, and fascinating possibility. Stephen has aptly noted this case is indeed a 'conundrum' !! and David has astutely noted the highly notable consistancy of these 'eyelash' (also termed 'sickle') markings on Indian blades. The rather off center positioning of this marking over the double fullers, suggests native manufacture. These particular markings are especially associated with Genoan and German blades, and these straight blades, especially straight backsword blades, are associated with the Marathas on India's west Coast;
"...the Marathas had a preference for straight swords rather than the curved blades of the Turks and Persians, and purchased large quantities of European blades, especially German, Genoese* and Spanish..".
"Hindu Arms and Ritual" Robert Elgood, p.40
*the sickle mark is most often thought to be of Genoan origin, diffusing into German blade making centers and ultimately Caucasian, where they became known as 'gurda'.

While these blades most often are seen in the khandas used by Marathas, and termed 'firangi' when carrying these foreign blades, the straight blade was also termed 'sakhela' as a term employed describing native made blades of this type. The term refers to the type of Indian steel, highly flexible and became applied generally to the sword type (also termed 'dhup' in Deccani).

The Marathas were known as well for thier trade activity, as was the Malabar Coast of western India, and such contact with the Arabs, particularly Yemen and Hadrahmaut was well established. Many Indian blades made it to Yemen where they were mounted in the Arabian sa'if in the 19th century. From here it would not be surprising that the blade could have gone with trade into Ethiopia, Somalia or Eritrea, eventually entered routes moving eastward into Sudan and ultimately Darfur. It would be fascinating to know exactly how this routing entailed, how long it took, and what adventures might have been afforded this trusty blade, before it came into the hands of a Fur tribesman who had it mounted in the hilt of local fashion.

At least this is my version of the conundrum

the way I'd like to think it happened.

All the best,
Jim

ariel · 21st January 2009, 01:17 PM

I do not know why do we have to postulate Indian origin of this blade.
It looks very African: village-made, for short.
Why would anyone import a blade of such quality from another country, when virtually identical blades were produced locally, is beyond me.
On the other hand, the "eyelash" mark was one of the most popular one in the entire world: from Italy and Austria, to N. Africa, Caucasus, Indian subcontinent etc., etc.
Putting it on a locally made weapon made a lot of commercial sense, and "importing" it was surely easier than the blade.
My vote: 100% African.

20th January 2009, 11:47 PM	#1
stephen wood Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 227	kaskara konundrum ...just finished on Ebay: sukhela blade with eyelash markings, sudanese silver (?) hilt decorations, strange crossguard. What do you make of it? Attached Images

21st January 2009, 12:15 AM	#2
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Hi Stephen, I too followed this auction because of the 'eyelash' markings....usually associated with mainly Indian blades. So, either this is a re-worked (?) Indian blade (possibly) or the marking has been 'adopted' ...as the 'half moon' was from earlier trade blades from Europe. Seeing as there has been sea trade between India and the East coast of Africa, for centuries and, the overland Arab trade routes for even longer ...I can see no reason that the Kaskara is not genuine. I wish I could have bid (damn credit crunch ) ...it is the first I have see with such markings. Kind Regards David Last edited by katana; 21st January 2009 at 06:37 PM.

21st January 2009, 01:06 AM	#3
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,621	I tried bidding, but did it in the last few seconds and of course forgot about the stupid ebay.co.uk edged weapons rules, which basically ask for credit card info. It looked like a really nice piece, but if it is of any consolation, I think I saw the ID of the winner (how this happened I am not sure, maybe some bug in eBay) and he is a member here, so we might actually see better pictures in a few weeks. I agree the "gurda" markings seem to have an Indian origin, especially with the dots at the ends of the eyelashes. Regards, Teodor

21st January 2009, 01:53 AM	#4
BBJW Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Idaho, USA Posts: 228	I was watching this one too. Interesting blade. My guess is the hilt was added later. If I had bought this it would have gone on the wall with my other "enigma" pieces. Cheers bbjw

21st January 2009, 03:56 AM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,944	Extremely interesting blade in modern Darfur mounts, as seen with the flat discoid pommel, the designs in the grip cover, and the workmanlike, somewhat crudely fashioned crossguard. What is interesting about the blade is keyed by the term 'sukhela' used by Stephen in describing this backsword blade, an instance seldom, if ever seen on Sudanese sa'if (kaskara). While the influx of blades into the Sahara and Sudan typically were through various points of entry from Meditteranean ports, it is known that others did in degree arrive through Red Sea ports. The potential for a blade from India ending up in Darfur certainly is a plausible, and fascinating possibility. Stephen has aptly noted this case is indeed a 'conundrum' !! and David has astutely noted the highly notable consistancy of these 'eyelash' (also termed 'sickle') markings on Indian blades. The rather off center positioning of this marking over the double fullers, suggests native manufacture. These particular markings are especially associated with Genoan and German blades, and these straight blades, especially straight backsword blades, are associated with the Marathas on India's west Coast; "...the Marathas had a preference for straight swords rather than the curved blades of the Turks and Persians, and purchased large quantities of European blades, especially German, Genoese* and Spanish..". "Hindu Arms and Ritual" Robert Elgood, p.40 *the sickle mark is most often thought to be of Genoan origin, diffusing into German blade making centers and ultimately Caucasian, where they became known as 'gurda'. While these blades most often are seen in the khandas used by Marathas, and termed 'firangi' when carrying these foreign blades, the straight blade was also termed 'sakhela' as a term employed describing native made blades of this type. The term refers to the type of Indian steel, highly flexible and became applied generally to the sword type (also termed 'dhup' in Deccani). The Marathas were known as well for thier trade activity, as was the Malabar Coast of western India, and such contact with the Arabs, particularly Yemen and Hadrahmaut was well established. Many Indian blades made it to Yemen where they were mounted in the Arabian sa'if in the 19th century. From here it would not be surprising that the blade could have gone with trade into Ethiopia, Somalia or Eritrea, eventually entered routes moving eastward into Sudan and ultimately Darfur. It would be fascinating to know exactly how this routing entailed, how long it took, and what adventures might have been afforded this trusty blade, before it came into the hands of a Fur tribesman who had it mounted in the hilt of local fashion. At least this is my version of the conundrum the way I'd like to think it happened. All the best, Jim

21st January 2009, 01:17 PM	#6
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	I do not know why do we have to postulate Indian origin of this blade. It looks very African: village-made, for short. Why would anyone import a blade of such quality from another country, when virtually identical blades were produced locally, is beyond me. On the other hand, the "eyelash" mark was one of the most popular one in the entire world: from Italy and Austria, to N. Africa, Caucasus, Indian subcontinent etc., etc. Putting it on a locally made weapon made a lot of commercial sense, and "importing" it was surely easier than the blade. My vote: 100% African.